Guns or not Guns

[Aurielius]

I thought owning an ocean worthy sloop was somewhat a frivolous use of money. :whistling:

And you just made my point for me. Bravo. ;)

Not quite, I have had years of fun with the Pegasus, sailed two oceans and several seas and never needed an ATF permit to do any of it, or be on their watch list. On a cost per minute basis I'm way far ahead of you in being frugal.

And I love my trucks, planes, guns, pool, billiards, fireworks and video games. All of those cost money and there will always be people that think they're a waste.

 

Your arguments about how it's better to own a boat because your rights as a gun owner are being infringed simply do not make any sense. You do not need an ATF permit, nor do you need ATF permission to own a full auto weapon. You need the permission of your local Sheriff, except when you don't(let's not get into a discussion on that right now), and you need a tax stamp which costs $200.

 

As for watch lists, I can just about guarantee that you're on several already. And all I know about you is that you own guns and are a veteran.

LOL..I never said owning a boat was better, just more cost effective in terms of pleasure derived per minute of cost use than owning a Machine Gun, and yes you do need an ATF permit to own a Machine Gun. I may be on someone's watch list but I still prefer to stay off the ATF's radar and if you had any sense of self preservation so would you. If you would like to continue to advocate for being armed as well as the military then join a branch and they will pay for your ammo and training. But please don't seriously tell me that you NEED one, because thats just plain ridiculous.

[Beriallord]

The law here basically says a firearm will not be considered concealed, whether its loaded or unloaded while driving if it is stored in a glove box, center console, or other closed container that comes included in your car, and doesn't even have to be locked. Basically you can have a loaded 9mm in your console, without a permit. But you better let the officer know you got it and where its at if he pulls you over. Because if they ask if you have a firearm, and you say no, and they end up searching your car and finding it, I believe that is still considered concealed. The law is different with regards to rifles/shotguns. If you drive a truck for example, you can have a gun rack on your back glass and have a rifle hanging up there in plain view, and its perfectly legal. If you drive a car, you can have a rifle/shotgun laying in open view in the back seat. The law is pretty lax here compared to many states with regards to transportation of a firearm in a vehicle. If one is unsure of a States laws regarding transportation, you are better off keeping it in the trunk. I don't think there is a single State that will consider a firearm in the trunk "concealed".

 

The cops around here are pretty casual about firearms, unless you are a convicted felon that has one. 9 times out of 10 they won't even ask if you got one, but I'd tell them anyway.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Beriallord

[Syco21]

You don't need a boat, that is just plain ridiculous. You don't need video games, that is just plain ridiculous. You've bought neither because you needed them, you bought them because you wanted them.

 

I don't need a truck, a car will use less gas and therefore will be much cheaper to operate. I want a truck. My old boss spent $800 a month in gas because he owned a truck. He didn't need a truck, all he needed was a small car with high MPG. He bought a truck because he wanted it.

 

The argument about cost per-minute is irrelevant. No one has claimed that it is not expensive, it is. That is not the discussion, the discussion is that people will have different ideas on what constitutes waste.

 

 

Finally, support you claim that you have to have an ATF permit to own a machine gun manufactured before 1986. Because I do believe that you're horribly misinformed on the law.

 

Edit: As for those watch lists. It doesn't matter if it's the ATF or FBI that keeps the list. Actually, if you're on an ATF watch list just for buying a machine gun, then you're probably in a better position than you are, being on the FBI's watch list for potential homegrown terrorist.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Syco21

[Aurielius]

You don't need a boat, that is just plain ridiculous. You don't need video games, that is just plain ridiculous. You've bought neither because you needed them, you bought them because you wanted them.

I don't need a truck, a car will use less gas and therefore will be much cheaper to operate. I want a truck. My old boss spent $800 a month in gas because he owned a truck. He didn't need a truck, all he needed was a small car with high MPG. He bought a truck because he wanted it.

The argument about cost per-minute is irrelevant. No one has claimed that it is not expensive, it is. That is not the discussion, the discussion is that people will have different ideas on what constitutes waste.

Finally, support you claim that you have to have an ATF permit to own a machine gun manufactured before 1986. Because I do believe that you're horribly misinformed on the law.

Edit: As for those watch lists. It doesn't matter if it's the ATF or FBI that keeps the list. Actually, if you're on an ATF watch list just for buying a machine gun, then you're probably in a better position than you are, being on the FBI's watch list for potential homegrown terrorist.

This is fast becoming pointless, if you think you can buy a Machine Gun without an ATF permit then try and do so. I am sure that your stay in a federal penitentiary will make you more enlightened than you seem to be at current. Since you were not an an adult in 1986 then the retrograde portion of the law is not applicable to you. I know my facts.....it seems you don't... :whistling:

"Federal law strictly regulates machine guns (firearms that fire many rounds of ammunition, without manual reloading, with a single pull of the trigger).

Among other things, federal law:

 

1. requires all machine guns, except antique firearms, not in the U.S. government's possession to be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF);

2. bars private individuals from transferring or acquiring machine guns except those lawfully possessed and registered before May 19, 1986;

3. requires anyone transferring or manufacturing machine guns to get prior ATF approval and register the firearms;

4. with very limited exceptions, imposes a $200 excise tax whenever a machine gun is transferred;

5. bars interstate transport of machine guns without ATF approval; and

6. imposes harsh penalties for machine gun violations, including imprisonment of up to 10 years, a fine of up to $250,000, or both for possessing an unregistered machine gun.

 

The lawful transfer of a machine gun generally requires (1) filing a transfer application with ATF, (2) paying a transfer tax, (3) getting ATF approval, and (4) registering the firearm in the transferee's name. Transferees must pass an extensive criminal background investigation and meet the criteria for possessing firearms under state and federal law. Among those ineligible are felons and people (1) addicted to controlled substances, (2) discharged under dishonorable conditions from the U.S. Armed Forces, or (3) adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution."

-Source OLR Research report

Edited January 30, 2012 by Aurielius

[SilverDNA]

Please gentlemen and lady's could any of you please explain to me why the feather is mightier than a gun ?

oh and by the way in my country I never came a cross any situation that couldn't be resolved by a walking stick or an umbrella and a steel plated bowler hat.

and the real danger as far as the government sees it comes from a free internet it seams nowadays.. oops i think that is the wrong topic for this .. forgive me please..

Edited January 30, 2012 by SilverDNA

[Syco21]

This is fast becoming pointless, if you think you can buy a Machine Gun without an ATF permit then try and do so. I am sure that your stay in a federal penitentiary will make you more enlightened than you seem to be at current. Since you were not an an adult in 1986 then the retrograde portion of the law is not applicable to you. I know my facts.....it seems you don't... :whistling:

"Federal law strictly regulates machine guns (firearms that fire many rounds of ammunition, without manual reloading, with a single pull of the trigger).

Among other things, federal law:

 

1. requires all machine guns, except antique firearms, not in the U.S. government's possession to be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF);

2. bars private individuals from transferring or acquiring machine guns except those lawfully possessed and registered before May 19, 1986;

3. requires anyone transferring or manufacturing machine guns to get prior ATF approval and register the firearms;

4. with very limited exceptions, imposes a $200 excise tax whenever a machine gun is transferred;

5. bars interstate transport of machine guns without ATF approval; and

6. imposes harsh penalties for machine gun violations, including imprisonment of up to 10 years, a fine of up to $250,000, or both for possessing an unregistered machine gun.

 

The lawful transfer of a machine gun generally requires (1) filing a transfer application with ATF, (2) paying a transfer tax, (3) getting ATF approval, and (4) registering the firearm in the transferee's name. Transferees must pass an extensive criminal background investigation and meet the criteria for possessing firearms under state and federal law. Among those ineligible are felons and people (1) addicted to controlled substances, (2) discharged under dishonorable conditions from the U.S. Armed Forces, or (3) adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution."

-Source OLR Research report

Registration != permit

Passing a rigorous background check != permit

Tax stamp != permit and is issued by the IRS

 

Please gentlemen and lady's could any of you please explain to me why the feather is mightier than a gun ?

oh and by the way in my country I never came a cross any situation that couldn't be resolved by a walking stick or an umbrella and a steel plated bowler hat.

and the real danger as far as the government sees it comes from a free internet it seams nowadays.. oops i think that is the wrong topic for this .. forgive me please..

Is that a serious question and do you mean why is the pen mightier than the sword?

[zegh8578]

yes, with strict restrictions

 

"guns for everyone" is so ridiculous even america doesnt allow for it.

[hoofhearted4]

"guns for everyone" is so ridiculous even america doesnt allow for it.

 

well actually, America does allow it. everyone in the country can have a gun. its just how/where/when/what they can carry (it) whichcertain states have set restrictions....but every american can own a gun, and i think states need to just lay off their restrictions and allow everyone to have a gun at any time..loaded

[zegh8578]

"guns for everyone" is so ridiculous even america doesnt allow for it.

 

well actually, America does allow it. everyone in the country can have a gun. its just how/where/when/what they can carry (it) whichcertain states have set restrictions....but every american can own a gun, and i think states need to just lay off their restrictions and allow everyone to have a gun at any time..loaded

 

including criminals and the hysterically insane?

 

thats what i mean by "everyone" and "restrictions" :]

there should be _good measures_ down to ensure gun-owners have a crystal clear police record, and no mental problems whatsoever etc

[Syco21]

Because criminals obey the law and dealers and gun shows are the only way to acquire one, correct?

 

Unless a person is behind bars, there is no good reason to bar any freeman the right of owning a firearm. As I've already alluded to, such laws only prohibit the law abiding. Yes, an individual previously convicted of a crime and subsequently released from jail, can very well be a law abiding citizen.