What Causes These Graphical Glitches?

[NexusKnight]

I've seen missing everything! Buildings, landscape, skies, water, horses, broken voices, armour, as well as body parts!!! Well, if I've got corrupted BSA's which could be the root of the problem... that does answer a lot of questions. But doesn't that also mean any of my installed BSA's could be corrupt including Voices? And if that's true, then doesn't that imply replacing all my existing BSA's including mods? Wow........ sounds like to a complete re-install to me! That I've done before and I could do again, but only as a last resort... I'm anxiously awaiting your response as I need to know exactly what to do from here with all my backed up BSA's.

 

BTW thanx a mil AnimalRiot & Striker879 for tracking down this problem as my advanced game is now unplayable... since uninstalling Streamline my FPS is ridiculously low causing regular CTD's.

Edited October 1, 2011 by NexusKnight

[Striker879]

I would think that only bsa files that were touched by mods you've installed while BSA Alteration was active would be affected. If you didn't install any mods that changed vanilla voices for example, then the vanilla voices bsa wouldn't have ever been altered. Wouldn't it be possible to replace your vanilla bsa files in your current install if you had another machine that you could temporarily install Oblivion on?

[NexusKnight]

I would think that only bsa files that were touched by mods you've installed while BSA Alteration was active would be affected. If you didn't install any mods that changed vanilla voices for example, then the vanilla voices bsa wouldn't have ever been altered. Wouldn't it be possible to replace your vanilla bsa files in your current install if you had another machine that you could temporarily install Oblivion on?

 

Problem is, I don't know how long I've had the BSA Alteration setting for or what BSA's were affected. I know I changed it for Bomret's Flowers & Foliage. That's where it was suggested to fiddle with Archive Invalidation settings using a 2006 Obmm 'settings' pic with different options to today's versions... I made a wrong interpretation that's what happened. Anyways, you're right of course about using a second computer for temp OB install to get required BSA files, but I don't need to do that because I have backups already, haha. Me smart (sometimes).

 

So your saying all I have to do is re-install what I think got changed... but how do I determine that? But don't BSA's textures and messes get overwritten by all mods textures and meeshes and the like? I''m too tired to think bout this now, it's llate here.... i'll look at this again in the morning. Hopefully then I'll be able to determine what has to be re-installed.

[Striker879]

All that BSA Redirection is doing is getting the game to look outside the registered bsa files for individual assets. If you downloaded a steel armor replacer for example it will place it's meshes in Oblivion\Data\meshes\armor\steel\m and Oblivion\Data\meshes\armor\steel\f in your game install folder (so the entire path might be C:\Games\Oblivion\Data\meshes\steel\...). When the game wants to display some steel armor it's going to look in the file Oblivion - Meshes.bsa for the meshes to use for steel armor (within the bsa it will look for meshes\armor\steel\... as the specific path, all the compressed files in the bsa are organised as though they were installed on a hard drive uncompressed and the game expects certain type of files to be in specific folders and subfolders e.g. nif files will be in a subfolder off meshes).

 

If you don't have BSA Redirection activated then when you download your steel armor replacer and install the meshes in C:\Games\Oblivion\Data\meshes\armor\steel the game will still display the vanilla steel armor because it will load the nif files registered for steel armor from the Oblivion - Meshes.bsa file. BSA Redirection changes that so that the game will now look for newer files located in C:\Games\Oblivion\Data\meshes\armor\steel and use them if they are a direct replacement for files that could have been loaded from the bsa.

 

What has happened in your case is that BSA Alteration has actually changed some of those compressed files in the bsa files. I believe if the changes are dated after the dates for replacement files from your downloaded mods then you're going to have the missing meshes issue even after you switch to BSA Redirection. If you simply replace the vanilla bsa files with your backups you should be getting everything back to normal.

 

Backing up your original bsa files ... a very wise move and one I'm doing right now myself (just make sure the backup is outside your Oblivion\Data folder so the game can't see them). :thumbsup:

Edited October 1, 2011 by Striker879

[NexusKnight]

@Striker879... So what you're saying is that I only need to replace my existing Oblivion BSA's? I assumed that BSA's were overwritten by mods and that would require re-installing all the associated mods again. But this isn't necessary?

 

Another thing, while playing the game, I can associate specific glitches with certain BSA's I have installed. For instance, when faces disappear leaving only eyes and teeth showing, then probably my hi-rez facial textures are affected (Omod with BSA associated), as well as all missing buildings using a bad QTP3 BSA. My missing armour pieces also have a BSA associated with them that's (presumably) gone bad etc.. Therfore I was thinking I can track down the bad BSA's from their causal effects. I have checked all my active BSA's (inlcuding Oblivion/Obmm/Mods) and compared them with the weird glitches I've witnessed and there is a direct correlation.

 

So, please correct me if I'm wrong here because it will affect which BSA's I have to replace. Do I have to replace all the BSA's relative to their graphical glitches or just the original Oblivion BSA's? And to further clarify things for me, do I only need to replace the BSA's and do nothing else? How about 'bashed patching' after etc.?

[Striker879]

If you have other mods installed that also use bsa files for their resources then yes, you would replace those bsa files from either backup or the downloaded and extracted archive.

 

If you were running a vanilla game plus ONLY those mods that come with a bsa file you wouldn't need any form of archive invalidation. Oblivion would find it's vanilla resources in it's own bsa files and your mods that come with a bsa would find theirs in their own bsa files. When you install mods that add new content to the game (e.g. shiny armor that wasn't included with the vanilla game) the resources are installed into your Oblivion\Data folder according to the folder structure required by the game (i.e. mesh nif files in Data\meshes, texture dds files in Data\textures etc.). Again, no form of archive invalidation is required because the game is instructed by the mod's esp where to find the resources (i.e. Data\meshes\armor\MyShinyNewArmor\shiny_cuirass.nif). Where some form of archive invalidation is required is when the mod is a replacer (i.e. doesn't come with an esp). Because the game will continue to load the vanilla version of what the mod wants to replace from the vanilla bsa files, some way of getting it to find the new resources is required. One way involves actually altering the bsa files (BSA Alteration) where the other does it by instructing the game to look for newer files with the same name and directory structure (BSA Redirection).

 

Because you have used BSA Alteration in the past your bsa files are no longer the same as they were when installed. This includes your mod added bsa files. Because the bsa files would normally only be changed by Bethesda during an upgrade patch (for vanilla bsa files) or by the mod author for a mod update (in the case of mod added bsa files) there should be no problem with you restoring your bsa files to original using your vanilla backups and the mod download extracted archive. I personally don't like overwriting files. I either move the files to a new location (i.e. my Backups folder) or delete the old file before copying into the old folder (which in the case of bsa files would be Oblivion\Data\*.bsa). I would move all the bsa files in my Oblivion\Data folder that I had replacements for and then copy and paste in the replacements. You could do it piecemeal, one bsa at a time until you get all your issues resolved if you prefer. As you're only replacing existing bsa files with one that should work, I wouldn't think a new bashed patch should be required, but Hickory's the big dog around here when you get talking about Wrye Bash.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Striker879

[NexusKnight]

Okay, just as a precaution I replaced ALL my Data folder BSA's with originals to see if my graphical glitches would go away. I believed this was the cure, however this image suggests otherwise... <http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/image.php?id=104763>.

 

I had just discovered Verona Bay and had a save there before I replaced my BSA's. So when I started the game to test my new changes, I see this not ten minutes into playing. How can this be? Is this some other problem now? And before you ask, I did change the Archive Invalidation setting to 'BSA Redirection' and updated and then bashed to be safe. Since this strange occurance I've had similar glitches in Wawnet Inn (with screenshots) where there are other black areas and a missing roof! This is driving me crazy. Any other ideas Striker879?

 

EDIT: Okay, my bad... I don't remember replacing All Natural Weather's BSA, and probably the other one that resulted in a bad Verona Bay. In fact, now that I've begun fixing my duplicate install on my other HDD with the same problem, I've noticed other BSA's I've missed or can't replace. Either MMM or OOO, for instance, has a Harvest Flora BSA that I can't find original for, and that one has been doing really weird things to my game (Lol here...<http://www.tesnexus.com/imageshare/image.php?id=99294>).

 

If I can't find the appropriate BSA's to replace, then my game is done. I might as well re-install my entire setup on both my HDDs and upgrade the versions at the same time. What a lesson this has been.

 

Anyways, much thanks to you AnimalRiot, HeyYou and Striker879 for all the terrific support. This site wouldn't be anything without your experience and devotion to the greatest game in town. Kudos to you.

 

Finally, I consider this thread concluded as I have decided to re-install my game and start fresh with a better understanding of how to play it correctly. I hope this helps someone else.

Edited October 3, 2011 by NexusKnight

[Striker879]

Hard drive space is cheap. When I download, I download to my OblivionDownloads folder, each mod to it's own subfolder. I do a copy and paste of the mod particulars (author, uploader, version, Nexus link, description and file details) to a text file that goes into the folder. The archive gets extracted and examined in that same folder. Whether I use a manual install or OMOD all of the files remain in that download folder as backup. If a newer version comes out it gets a new subfolder in the previous version's folder.

 

Ya, I'm an archivist (some might describe me with another word starting with 'a').

[NexusKnight]

Hard drive space is cheap. When I download, I download to my OblivionDownloads folder, each mod to it's own subfolder. I do a copy and paste of the mod particulars (author, uploader, version, Nexus link, description and file details) to a text file that goes into the folder. The archive gets extracted and examined in that same folder. Whether I use a manual install or OMOD all of the files remain in that download folder as backup. If a newer version comes out it gets a new subfolder in the previous version's folder.

 

Ya, I'm an archivist (some might describe me with another word starting with 'a').

 

You probably include more details than I do. I too have a complete download folder with a details list. But this didn't help me with this problem. I found a Harvest BSA installed by either OOO or MMM that must have been created my the Omod ten months ago. This was causing havok with my Complete Gardening Mod as it was probably corrupt. I didn't know what to do in this situation, It would've been simple to duplicate one BSA by installing it elsewhere then copy & paste. My dilemma was not knowing from which Mod? Therefore, I figured it would be better to upgrade both versions and the rest of my other important Mods in a complete re-install, to solve the problem. It wasn't easy but I completed a duplicate install on my Win 7 system which has proven to be as stable as Win XP with greater RAM options. So far, so good.

[AnimalRiot]

Good luck with your re-installation. My only advice is try to get handy with Wrye Bash and BAIN installation. It gives you a whole lot more control over your mods (and lots of other benefits).