Marxist ßastard Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Taxation isn't theft if the money wasn't yours in the first place. As it stands I'm sure that (much) less than 50% of your income is due purely to your own labor; the rest wouldn't be possible without tax-funded infrastructure. As I said last year (!), if you want to live off the land in California as a seasonal berry picker, not benefiting from government infrastructure nor funding it, you're free to do that. But for now you must pay into the system which makes your income possible in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Sorry, not sure which 'above poster' you mean. I mentioned a 100% tax because you stated that taxation is not related to morality. If that's true, then you must think there are no moral issues involved with a 100% tax rate.I mentioned communism (philosophy, not political system), because it would be exceedingly hard to think a 100% tax was acceptable, but find communism unacceptable, without some blatant contradictions, or what Orwell would describe as Doublethink.Which is not to imply that you or anyone else feels a particular way about communism, but I suspect most people think of themselves as anti-communist, and I wanted to highlight how that should inform their view of a 100% tax and the morality thereof. Also, since some people seem to be confused on the point, and maybe don't want to read through all the previous pages, I have never stated that taxation, in itself, is theft, or immoral for that matter. I stated that *involuntary* taxation is theft, theft is immoral, therefore involuntary taxation is immoral. A voluntary tax, such as a sales tax, is perfectly fine with me. Others may disagree of course. How is a sales tax voluntary? I am never asked if I want to pay it, I am forced to pay it if I want to purchase some particular item. Sure, I could NOT buy said item..... but, if that item is say, a prescription drug I need to survive, where is the choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 have never stated that taxation, in itself, is theft, or immoral for that matter. I stated that *involuntary* taxation is theft, theft is immoral, therefore involuntary taxation is immoral. A voluntary tax, such as a sales tax, is perfectly fine with me. Others may disagree of course.That you even can link morality with taxation is to say the least is droll. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I for one would love to see you use that on your upcoming 1040. I am not sure which will be laughing harder me or the repossession dept of the IRS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzlsacatanango Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Taxation isn't theft if the money wasn't yours in the first place. As it stands I'm sure that (much) less than 50% of your income is due purely to your own labor; the rest wouldn't be possible without tax-funded infrastructure. As I said last year (!), if you want to live off the land in California as a seasonal berry picker, not benefiting from government infrastructure nor funding it, you're free to do that. But for now you must pay into the system which makes your income possible in the first place. LolIf it's in my paycheck, it's mine, as a result of the best deal I could get in the market. Whether it would have come out the same way in the absence of certain infrastructure is certainly debatable, but in any case you can have tax-funded infrastructure without an involuntary tax. So that is a bit of a red herring. How is a sales tax voluntary? I am never asked if I want to pay it, I am forced to pay it if I want to purchase some particular item. Sure, I could NOT buy said item..... but, if that item is say, a prescription drug I need to survive, where is the choice? We already went over this 7 pages ago...Exactly right. You choose to buy or not to buy, therefore you choose to pay the tax or not pay it, with no government prosecution or jail time for either choice.Don't put the tax on essentials like food, clothing, lifesaving drugs, and there is no issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzlsacatanango Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 That you even can link morality with taxation is to say the least is droll. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I for one would love to see you use that on your upcoming 1040. I am not sure which will be laughing harder me or the repossession dept of the IRS. I'm talking moral vs immoral, not legal vs illegal. Hardly the same discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) That you even can link morality with taxation is to say the least is droll. You are of course entitled to your opinion and I for one would love to see you use that on your upcoming 1040. I am not sure which will be laughing harder me or the repossession dept of the IRS.I said I wouldn't post here but I feel I need to explain why this is incorrect. He is arguing against taxation, which means he wants to change the law or debate the morality of it. Obviously he won't be able to put that on his records and not pay taxes. That was nothing more then a personal attack without a counter argument, something you like to do a lot. Not going to post on the actually tax issue though, I needed to address this because no one else ever seems to care. Edited February 16, 2012 by marharth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grannywils Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 In response to no one in particular, I would like to announce that I have Excedrin headache Number 943. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 In response to no one in particular, I would like to announce that I have Excedrin headache Number 943.You might want to get that checked out. It is not normal to get bad headaches over wanting to defend a friend for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxist ßastard Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If it's in my paycheck, it's mineIt's yours once it gets in your hands? You'd do great as a pickpocket. To be clear: It would be immoral to borrow a friend's car, then use it as a taxi for a day without getting the friend's permission or giving the friend a fair share in the profits. Likewise, it's immoral not to pay taxes – tax-funded infrastructure makes it possible for you to get an income, so you should pay into it what you owe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzlsacatanango Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If it's in my paycheck, it's mineIt's yours once it gets in your hands? You'd do great as a pickpocket. To be clear: It would be immoral to borrow a friend's car, then use it as a taxi for a day without getting the friend's permission or giving the friend a fair share in the profits. Not sure if you're serious or if you just like twisting words. Pickpocketing is what the income tax is. Taking without consent. I don't know how you feel about consent, but to me it is maybe the most important, fundamental function of interacting, free individuals. Likewise, it's immoral not to pay taxes – tax-funded infrastructure makes it possible for you to get an income, so you should pay into it what you owe.Again with the red herring. You can build infrastructure with a sales tax. The infrastructure discussion is not related to the involuntary tax discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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