imperistan Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I take the anarchist view on taxation. If you can't get a fair majority of your inhabitants to willingly donate for the good of maintaining that government (yes, anarchy IS a form of government. Trying to say otherwise is only going to prove your blatant ignorance on the subject, even if you claim yourself to be an anarchist) then that government doesn't deserve to be sustained. Those that don't want to pay shouldn't be forced to, but they shouldn't get any of the benefits either besides a good wholesome allowance of presence, as in not kicking the guy out just because he doesn't want to pay taxes he shouldn't have to pay, but instead allowing him asylum without any government sanctioned support. Of course then again I take a more autarchist view on government anyway (and as such tell even anarchists to piss off with their government), as in self-government. And as such I wouldn't necessarily be "taxing" myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Who's talking about reality?We are talking about whether taxation is morally wrong or not.You are. You stated that sales tax is voluntary, which is a conclusive observation of fact. You did not state it COULD or MIGHT be voluntary if we change what sales tax is applied to. Don't deflect blame to me for your own inability to accurately convey your thoughts in a manner that doesn't cause confusion. I choose to pay sales tax or not to, by choosing to buy an item or not to buy it. This is a moral tax, in that it is my choice pay or not to pay.Again, I pay sales tax on food and clothing. Can I choose not to walk naked in the cold? Can I choose not to eat? There isn't comprehensive public transportation where I live. I must drive a car to and from places. I pay a price for gasoline which includes something like a 30% upmark to account for taxes. Can I choose not to pay these too by not buying gas and being unable to support myself because I can't go to work? Your distinction is moronic at worst and naive at best.Actually you can walk, just where do live that there is sales tax on food? "Only Five states — Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Oklahoma, and South Dakota— tax groceries fully but offer credits or rebates offsetting some of the taxes paid on food by some portions of the population. These credits or rebates usually are set at a flat amount per family member. The amounts and eligibility rules vary, but may be too narrow and/or insufficient to give eligible households full relief from sales taxes paid on food purchases" Erm...what? WV has between a 2-6% sales tax depending on the type of food. It was a straight up 6% until a few years ago. http://www.tax-rates.org/West_Virginia/sales-tax The operative word was 'fully", I was not stating that partial taxes are not in place by other states and I WAS quoting a source - Center on Budget and Policy Priorities hence the quotation marks.( http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1230) Edited February 12, 2012 by Aurielius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grannywils Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Before I give my own view on taxes, I am just curious as to how those who consider taxes "immoral", would explain how their government would function should there be no taxes collected, whether they were income taxes, sales taxes or whatever. The last time I checked, we still lived in a democracy. To the best of my knowledge, someone needs to pay for it to run itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoofhearted4 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Welfare is not for people who are lazy, it is for people to temporally live until they can find a job. The system is abused by a few and it needs to be slightly reformed.theoretically thats what its used for. i grew up in a city where the majority grew up on welfare. 8% of America is on Welfare or food stamps, not counting Unemployment or Social Security. which are both abused as well. SS was designed for retired persons. its hardly used exclusively for that anymore. however, it doesnt need to be reformed it needs to be removed. Welfare, Food Stamps, SS, all needs to go. Edited February 12, 2012 by hoofhearted4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 however, it doesn't need to be reformed it needs to be removed. Welfare, Food Stamps, SS, all needs to go.As conservative as I am thats just a bit draconian for me, I'll agree that there are abuses of the system and even that some 'play' the system for their own ends. However there are poor who through no fault of their own cannot get off the bottom rung of the economic ladder. ie: single mothers whose vacated husbands are eluding their child support, disabled veterans who are so traumatized that they cannot function at all, mentally sub normal individuals that are not in institutions...just to pick a few categories. What happened to the concept of compassionate conservatism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzerfong Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Aurelius: I agree 100%. Those with disabilities out of there control, or created because of government service, deserve to be taken care of (I don't mean killed). If you're in Australia, you'll see how crazy social security (called Centrelink) is over here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperistan Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Before I give my own view on taxes, I am just curious as to how those who consider taxes "immoral", would explain how their government would function should there be no taxes collected, whether they were income taxes, sales taxes or whatever. The last time I checked, we still lived in a democracy. To the best of my knowledge, someone needs to pay for it to run itself. Ideally, necessary funds would come in the form of donations. If the people cannot willingly support their government then not only has that government failed but so have the people who failed to create a government they could bother to support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltrickle Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Taxation is socialism. Socialism is when government transfers your property to someone else. If the recipient of socialism were to take your property directly it would be theft. When government does it on behalf of the recipient, people have been conditioned to accept that it is not theft. But taxation is theft and a form of slavery, as it causes people to work for the benefit of others. As for infrastructure, does anyone seriously think that the government does not take a penny more than it needs or that your taxes are spent solely for your benefit? You wouldn't trust a stranger with your money, so why do people trust the government? It's no wonder the rich keep getting richer. Besides essential infrastructure, much of our taxes are being spent on things we do not necessarily want. Personally, I think taxes should be voluntary in most other cases. For example, if the government decides to provide free abortions, then people who support the idea can put their money where their mouth is, and pay up. I think the government will find that not enough money will be raised and they will have to forget the idea. In other words, people have actually voted with their money. They have decided in a democratic way, that they do not want to use the wealth that they have created with their own labour to provide free abortions for strangers. I think this is an incredibly fair system, that allows people more control over what happens in their society. Rather than do-gooders and liberals making unilateral decisions and then imposing them on the rest of us and at our expense, we take back control of our society by simply not financially supporting ideas we do not agree with. Unfortunately, by accepting taxation in its current form we have allowed unscrupulous individuals to acquire immense wealth and power, and they are using that power to usurp control of our government and dictate the direction of our society. And the direction for society that they have chosen is one which benefits only them by impoverishing increasingly larger numbers of our people. This will continue until people decide that they can no longer tolerate the governments terrible abuse of the taxation system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxist ßastard Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 necessary funds would come in the form of donationsI think taxes should be voluntaryExactly! And we should vote on whether we want blacks in our neighborhood. It's called democracy, sheeple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grannywils Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 necessary funds would come in the form of donationsI think taxes should be voluntaryExactly! And we should vote on whether we want blacks in our neighborhood. It's called democracy, sheeple! WHAT?? How did it get to be "our" neighborhood???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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