Feminism - What it means to me

[grannywils]

Feminism - What it means to me

 

This is likely to be quite long; so those of you for whom this subject is uninteresting I suggest you might want to try another thread...

 

I was recently berated by a very good male friend for having the temerity to congratulate another woman for the way in which she handled a situation in which she found herself being treated unfairly (as a woman) by her employer (a man). I thought she handled it quite well and without a lot of moaning and groaning and "oh woe is me'ing". She simply refused to be bullied, and she stood her ground. My male friend told me that I did not understand what I was doing by congratulating her, and that I was being "caught in a trap of misandry" and that it had nothing to do with the situation in which she found herself, but that by congratulating her on her behaviour I was encouraging "that sort" of bullying behaviour on the part of this women and others in the future.

 

Now, in my opinion his position was completely preposterous, and I told him as much. We got into quite a prolonged discourse to which there was no real resolution. Anyway, my personal altercations are not the subject of this thread, and are just presented here by way of an introduction to my real topic, which is feminism and what is really does mean to me.

 

My parents, and in particular my mother, raised me to believe that I was no better than any other human being on the face of this earth, but that just as importantly no other human being was any better than I was. That included males, females, blacks, whites, any other races, creeds, colors, religions, sexual orientations, etc. They also taught me the difference between right and wrong. There was a lot of other stuff in there, but those particular lessons were the ones that resonated with me. I learned not to put up with being mistreated by anyone on the basis of my gender, nor to stand by while anyone else was being mistreated by someone who was bigger, stronger or in a position of power over another. I learned early on that hate is the worst four letter word in the English language, and I do not believe in it and try very hard not to use it and not to feel it.

 

When the feminist movement really got rolling in the United States (I am an American, so I can really only speak for the United States), the voices heard were the most strident ones. This is not unusual. In most cases where change is required, someone has to be willing to jump up and down and sometimes be really obnoxious in order to be heard, and have anyone pay attention. I did not mind. I do not tend to be the strident type, but I knew from whence they came and appreciated their willingness to do what they were doing and the cause for which they were doing it. Unfortunately, to this day, some of those who still do not believe that women should even be allowed to have the vote, let alone the rights that they have gained, will often harken back to the days of these women and their strident voices. In addition, there are still many very strong willed feminist women whom I believe take things too far. However, there are also just as many men out there who still want to keep their women barefoot and pregnant. This is human nature. I am not in control of how others believe or behave. But I am very much in control of how I believe and how I behave.

 

What feminism means to me is basically the same thing that humanism means to me. We are all human beings first. We need to learn to deal with each other as people, not as objects, not as nationalities, not as races, not as religions and not as genders; simply as fellow human beings.

 

For what it is worth, I just thought I would set the record straight on the subject of feminism, at least from my perspective. Don't know if anyone else has anything to add. If so, please feel free to do so....

 

 

 

[IndorilTheGreat]

I agree with you 100%.

 

I think that it is absolutely ridiculous that anyone should be treated on a level below anyone else. I was also raised in a family where understanding is a part of life. I'm not quite sure what your friend meant when he said, "you are encouraging her." Perhaps he had the idea that she would suddenly develop a radical feminist personality overnight, looking down on people that were not like her (which is extremely unlikely to happen). This leads me to my next point, however.

 

I am all for equal rights. I find it preposterous that anyone should be treated as a "lesser being" (animals included; they are living as well, but that is a whole different debate, so I won't start it here). However, it always irks me a bit when there are feminist parties calling for "equal opportunity." Over time, women have made wonderful progress towards equal rights. But that is just it; the "feminist extremists" (if you could call them that), go far above and beyond the issue of equal rights, and put men on the chopping block. I can speak from personal experience.

 

I was at the local fair, and there was a small group of women wearing T-Shirts with a slogan on them, handing out pamphlets. As I got closer, I realized that it was a small-scale feminist rally. I had been curious as to why some feminist groups are so assertive with their ideals, and so I went over and politely asked one of the members how they plan on proposing their argument. Almost immediately, she began to yell and rant at me about how I was a pig of a man, a slob, and questioning my heritage in general. Soon, two or three more of them joined in, and the overall atmosphere was quite hostile. I genuinely feared for my life.

 

After I managed to extract myself from the situation, the (presumable) organizer of the protest came over and apologized to me for the behavior of her fellow protesters, explaining that many of them were new to "the scene" (still not quite sure what that meant), and had some rather intense feelings about men.

 

Sorry. That turned into a rant, and I did not intend for it to do so.

 

Just my two-cents on feminism. It is a wonderful idea, but not when it puts the lives of others at risk.

 

Edit: Sorry for the edit. I had to edit out a word. It seems that I did not even catch myself typing it. That, and I saw a few spelling and grammatical errors that bugged me. I did not change my opinion in any way. :thumbsup:

Edited November 8, 2011 by IndorilTheGreat

[Werne]

Feminism is a good thing, but unfortunately there are still a lot of situations where women are treated like lesser beigns. I once had to defend a friend of mine when her boyfriend started beating her on the street claiming she is "his property" and that she can't have friends if he says so. Earned a few broken ribs, but it was well worth it.

 

My thoughts on feminism, it's a great movement. However the feminist extremist groups can sometimes be very aggressive and hostile, I don't approve aggressive behaviour.

[marharth]

For the most part feminism now days just means women are better then men.

 

Feminism no longer means what it should.

 

 

If your a feminist now you don't believe in equal rights, you believe that women are treated unfairly and that men are bad. That is not what the word should mean, but it is what it means now.

 

Feminists will complain about not having the same rights but don't care if they are presented with things such as how the court handles child care or certain social norms that make life easier for them.

 

 

A feminist should be a female looking for equal rights, not someone who attacks men and only complains about the bad side of being a women.

[Nintii]

Well Feminism means a great many different hings to a great many different people ...

 

But in my parents home they had a balance, my father WAS the head of the household and had the final say BUT he ALWAYS consulted with my mother and got her thoughts first before making any decision, sometimes he had her approval and went ahead and other times he didn't get her approval but went ahead anyway.

 

He told me once ... your mom and i are equal as people but our roles are different and just as an animal with two heads is a freak, so to is a household with two leaders ... that's about as close as I can remember it, but to me it made sense at the time and still does.

 

Sexism will never disappear, ever, it is far too deeply ingrained in the minds of men through culture and tradition and religion.

It boggles the mind when you hear of the physical mutilations that some women go through in northern Africa "because women are viewed as wild and loose sexual manics" and so like animals they need to be "doctored" to bring them under control.

Women are sold as items are sold in the markets in our modern day society in prearranged marriages to live as servants in their mother-in-laws home to cook and clean like slaves.

I know one such woman who was taken out of school at sixteen and "married off" ... and along with the "other' daughters-in-law was ushered into years of mistreatment.

 

Her husband and his brothers sat and ate with the mother-in-law and when they were finished only then could the wives eat ... this practice is alive and well today all across Northern Africa, the Middle East and the Far East and even takes place in the civilized West right under peoples noses.

My own gardener told me once that if his wife didn't perform as a "good" wife then he would "take her back" to where he got her from and tell her parents "that she wasn't performing well and was useless' ... just like some appliance that was faulty.

 

And the law courts of Europe and America protect the right of these people to continue these "cultural" practices, these abominations, right in their midst.

A form of this foul and rotten attitude and practice also takes place in Western societies only in a more sublte form ... you as a woman are only "granted" access into certain things because the Law says so.

b ut on the whole when it comes time for promotion, you aren't moved up but sideways ... men get vertical promotion and women are moved sideways into niche positions .... example ... a man will go from worker to lower management, then to middle management and then on up to senior management.

A women will go from woker to lower management and then onto a specialised field in lower management and all the while the guy goes up andf up and up and so does his salary ... This IS DISCRIMINATION ...

 

My suggestion to many of my sisters is this, you can go ahead and bang your head on the wall and through your persistance and hardwork get somewhere like I did ... do something that on one else is doing, that's a sure fire way of grabbing them by the short and curlies.

 

OR,

 

As some women do just go over the top and think that through oozing sexuality that they will go far ... I'll tell you right now sister that if you're doing this you will only get you so far before some really important guy the one who's going to give you that big bereak comes along and uses you and tosses you onto the rubbish heap when he's finished ... because most men want a prostitute but only marry the "decent" girl next door.

You know the crazy thing is this, i've actually had a woman ... a woman i tell you "offer" herself to me in exchange for business ... I threw her out of my office ... I grabbed her by the hair and physically chucked her out and gave her a few choice words to follow.

Never cheapen yourself.

 

OR,

 

Become one of "them" and behave like a man to be "in" with them and lose your identity ... one of my customers a woman, acts just like a man, she curses and swears and it's nothing but F's & B's everytime I see her, she's not butch she's just raw ... and the men in my company spit on her name as a female ... and the women, well we are so ashamed whenever she comes around ... it's natural for a man to be "earthy" but not you.

 

Feminism is not a vehicle to promote hate speech against men and march in potato sacks so that they can't see your body and thus translate you into a sexual object ... no, Feminism should be there to PROMOTE the FACT that women are EQUAL to any task at hand.

For crying out loud no woman wants to dominate, we just want to be recognised as more than baby making machines and trinkets on your arm ... women are wired differently, but that doesn't mean we are inferior.

[grannywils]

@Nintii: There is nothing that you said in your above post that I might not have said myself (well with the exception of your own personal upbringing, of course). I do not mean to suggest that women are even close to being treated as equals throughout the world. In fact the mutilations which you described were uppermost in my mind when I said I would only speak for the United States. Although, they are still going on here as well. However, I did want to stress your last paragraph, as it was my favorite. So I am copying it here:

 

"Feminism is not a vehicle to promote hate speech against men and march in potato sacks so that they can't see your body and thus translate you into a sexual object ... no, Feminism should be there to PROMOTE the FACT that women are EQUAL to any task at hand. For crying out loud no woman wants to dominate, we just want to be recognised as more than baby making machines and trinkets on your arm ... women are wired differently, but that doesn't mean we are inferior."

[DeadMansFist849]

Feminism is the radical idea that women are people, as far as I'm concerned. As a corollary to that, the belief that femininity is not inferior to masculinity is included, and female sexuality should not be punished.

 

I'm a supporter of feminism because I actually care about my female friends and don't want anybody treated like lesser beings because of their gender. Feminism isn't about hating anybody or promoting women as superior. It is not the cause of all the world's ills. It is ridiculous that so-called "men's rights activists" (who are actually quite absurd and scary themselves) blame feminism for their being rather disturbed.

 

We're not all Mary Daly, Sheila Jeffreys, Andrea Dworkin, Germaine Greer, Julie Bindel or Hugo Schwyzer, so it would be nice if people would stop generalising.

[IndorilTheGreat]

Feminism is the radical idea that women are people, as far as I'm concerned. As a corollary to that, the belief that femininity is not inferior to masculinity is included, and female sexuality should not be punished.

 

I'm a supporter of feminism because I actually care about my female friends and don't want anybody treated like lesser beings because of their gender. Feminism isn't about hating anybody or promoting women as superior. It is not the cause of all the world's ills. It is ridiculous that so-called "men's rights activists" (who are actually quite absurd and scary themselves) blame feminism for their being rather disturbed.

 

We're not all Mary Daly, Sheila Jeffreys, Andrea Dworkin, Germaine Greer, Julie Bindel or Hugo Schwyzer, so it would be nice if people would stop generalising.

 

I can see that last bit was directed at me.

 

I wasn't "generalizing." I am aware that the vast majority of feminist groups are calm and level headed. I was not implying that all women behave this way, and I most certainly did not "generalize" the female population.

 

That would be like me saying that all men are insensitive jerks, which is far from the truth.

 

I'm not trying to come off as hostile here, I just wish to assure you (and everyone), that I do not base a whole population by a small percentage. That would just be silly. :yes:

[Keanumoreira]

I have discussed this topic thoroughly with a very good friend of mine, and here are my thoughts:

 

 

I do realize that Feminism can be a dirty movement sometimes, but, as I cannot ever stress enough to anyone, there are radicals in ever political party. Now, to those women who firmly believe all men are scum, then I'm sorry, but you need to grow up. That is profiling and it is wrong, and that makes you just as bad as the men you claim to be below humanity because of 10,000 years of abuse. That is the past, dealing with our ancestors, which, if I may remind all of you, are not tied to us today. Now, I agree that this is still a world ruled by men, and that they still have dominance over civilization. That is not a sexist opinion, it is fact. There are still rights that both sexes lack from the other one and causes an unbalanced, so called "equality". Just like the black rights movement: "Just how equal is equality"? Some people take this and ask the Feminists, because they believe they are a people who are out to destroy men and all of that stuff. Again, those are radicals. Humanity is at a stalemate in so many areas at the moment, as we are coincidentally clashing with the most complex time in our short existence. It doesn't surprise me that things are unfolding as bewilderingly as they are now.

Edited November 9, 2011 by Keanumoreira

[Lisnpuppy]

I am going to say some crazy things here so hold on...or stick your fingers in your ears.

 

Men and women are different. Men can do some things better than women and vice versa. We are not equal in all things.

 

*le gasp*

 

Now that being said....I am not the type of person who believes that women and men are equal in all things. In fact I celebrate these differences as that is part of what makes life interesting. Men and women being different creates a harmonious balance to me.

 

That doesn't mean however that either gender should be treated poorly or as "lacking." That doesn't mean because I think that say, Men are better at carrying things with their own bodies that a woman can never carry things well. Or can't in fact find a better way to carrry things all together. The strongest man on the planet is stronger than the strongest woman on the planet. Fact it is but does that really MEAN anything? Would perhaps, embracing certain differences instead of trying to pigeonhole gender into having to be exactly the same on both sides, be a better solution?

 

I don't think women should be considered inferior in jobs or study or capability to get things done. I don't think that men are better at maths or that females are better cooks. Do I believe that woman often are able to look at things differently than men and perhaps find another, maybe better solution? Do I think men are able to separate themselves from emotions at times to make decisions? Yes...but that doesn't always make a BETTER decision nor does it mean that all men are like this or all women cut from the same fold.

 

How you behave and what you believe are a odd mix of heredity and how you are raised. For me...femininity is a lesser idea behind the respect I have for the individuals I meet. Humans will always have certain gender preconceptions becasue its human nature to categorize things. However categorizing does not have to mean prejudice.

 

I am human. I am a woman, a Mother, a daughter, an intelligent being. I enjoy games and discussions. I love to cook and to make pretty things. I love to read science. I love that I could have a baby. I hate high heels and love mens PJs. I love F1 and cars and makeup and lipsticks. I have at times used my looks to my advantage. I don't think any of this makes me more or less than any other human. I think its OK that I can not be stronger than a man of my equal age, weight or height. I demand that people treat me....the human with respect and give me the same shake anyone else would get. Not because I am a woman but because I am a person.

 

Granny touched on something that I sort of agree. She says she views feminism as humanism. I just think humanism. Humans in all their glory, all their likeness and all their differences that make the world a more wondrous place.