The Great Imperial vs. Stormcloak Debate

[antonkr]

Stormcloaks

Crappy capitol with rude people and racism

No way to defend themselves

Try to rebel even after the war

overly insane leader who is too sure of himself.

Imperials

Glorious Solitude as a capitol, which even with a war is pretty, and is amazing

Army capable of defeating Thalmor but not with the silly stormcloaks

Banned Talos temporarily, because of Thalmor.

Are not racist unlike Stormcloaks

How are you people still choosing Stormcloaks?

[HeyYou]

Because the empire is just a tool of the thalmor. They are fomenting rebellion. Any resistance against the empire, is resistance against the thalmor, and therefore, good.

[antonkr]

Because the empire is just a tool of the thalmor. They are fomenting rebellion. Any resistance against the empire, is resistance against the thalmor, and therefore, good.

Thalmor want you to go against the empire so Skyrim is weakend, therefor is easily taken over by them after.

[marharth]

Because the empire is just a tool of the thalmor. They are fomenting rebellion. Any resistance against the empire, is resistance against the thalmor, and therefore, good.

Thalmor want you to go against the empire so Skyrim is weakend, therefor is easily taken over by them after.

The empire is weaker if the stormcloaks win. The stormcloaks are stronger. If you claim the empires army in Skyrim can drive off the thalmor, why can't the stormcloaks?

[raptorclw]

Hey! My first post as well, as I felt I really need to comment here :)

 

I chose the Empire over the Stormcloaks because of the way they mirror our own history.

 

Empire:

Inspired by the great Roman Empire, which I admire a lot. Sure, they did a lot of bad things (slavery, cruelty, debauchery, etc.) BUT they left a great legacy. Books. Culture. Theatre. Buildings of great beauty. Art. Science. The world would not be as we know it today if not for the Roman Empire. Their language was spoken hundreds of years after the empires fell. The Imperial Capital looked a lot like Rome in Oblivion and they always draw parallels.

I'm still hoping for a revival of the Empire to its former glory, maybe not following in the footsteps of the Roman Empire (splitting up into West and East and then collapsing).

 

Stormcloaks

Inspired by the Vikings and Norse in general. Great warriors with a sense of pride and honour. I loved them when I was a child and love them still. Their mythology is incredible. Their ships roamed the seas and they saw and did things of great honour and cruelty alike. But what did they leave us? They barely had a written language. Lived for hundreds of years and they lived in wooden halls that are now dust. Too few citadels remain. No books, no plays, barely any songs and ballads. They lived and died and didn't leave much for future generations. I think they have a great legacy, of course, but it hardly compares to the Roman Empire.

 

Bottom line

If I'd rally the Stormcloaks they would win, live well and die young. They would bicker between themselves, thane against thane, jarl against jarl. They would fight with honour and they would die the same, leaving Skyrim in shambles.

 

The Empire has an actual chance of uniting all the lands and defending their way of life. Maybe a few harsh laws. Maybe more taxes. But people would live in peace and children will be born and raised. Stormcloaks thrive on conflict. The Empire, corrupted and beaureaucratic as it is, is the only solution for Peace. Pax Romana (Roman Peace) lasted for more than 200 years and is still the longest uninterrupted period of peace any one country of Europe has EVER known. I think that counts for something :)

 

I am of Roman lineage (or so I like to think), so I may be biased. But I think I made some valid points on why the rebels are not suitable in the long run.

[handerseight2]

Hey! My first post as well, as I felt I really need to comment here :)

 

I chose the Empire over the Stormcloaks because of the way they mirror our own history.

 

Empire:

Inspired by the great Roman Empire, which I admire a lot. Sure, they did a lot of bad things (slavery, cruelty, debauchery, etc.) BUT they left a great legacy. Books. Culture. Theatre. Buildings of great beauty. Art. Science. The world would not be as we know it today if not for the Roman Empire. Their language was spoken hundreds of years after the empires fell. The Imperial Capital looked a lot like Rome in Oblivion and they always draw parallels.

I'm still hoping for a revival of the Empire to its former glory, maybe not following in the footsteps of the Roman Empire (splitting up into West and East and then collapsing).

 

Stormcloaks

Inspired by the Vikings and Norse in general. Great warriors with a sense of pride and honour. I loved them when I was a child and love them still. Their mythology is incredible. Their ships roamed the seas and they saw and did things of great honour and cruelty alike. But what did they leave us? They barely had a written language. Lived for hundreds of years and they lived in wooden halls that are now dust. Too few citadels remain. No books, no plays, barely any songs and ballads. They lived and died and didn't leave much for future generations. I think they have a great legacy, of course, but it hardly compares to the Roman Empire.

 

Bottom line

If I'd rally the Stormcloaks they would win, live well and die young. They would bicker between themselves, thane against thane, jarl against jarl. They would fight with honour and they would die the same, leaving Skyrim in shambles.

 

The Empire has an actual chance of uniting all the lands and defending their way of life. Maybe a few harsh laws. Maybe more taxes. But people would live in peace and children will be born and raised. Stormcloaks thrive on conflict. The Empire, corrupted and beaureaucratic as it is, is the only solution for Peace. Pax Romana (Roman Peace) lasted for more than 200 years and is still the longest uninterrupted period of peace any one country of Europe has EVER known. I think that counts for something :)

 

I am of Roman lineage (or so I like to think), so I may be biased. But I think I made some valid points on why the rebels are not suitable in the long run.

 

Wow, beautifully worded garbage.

 

Effectively it's empire worship, selectively handpicking the detail to honour dominion. I don't see most Chinese priding their heiritage on power mad conquerors.

 

Of course remnants of Rome exist - our current pyramid system of the few knowing excess while the majority only know strife inherits directly from Roman institutions. This is not a good thing. Tribal peoples' moderated culture has far out lived risen and fallen empire by millenia - there's something to be said there. We have plenty we've learnt to depend on with the assumption it makes us sofisticated but at a price. Not one of us has natural human skill to provide for oneself and others, sever the pricely services and we starve, freeze and die from poor sanitation, begging for guidance. Meanwhile those 'uneducated savages' prevail humbly onward, needing little to be content.

 

History wont remember you nor I nor the untold numbers of young and old that perish hourly but it will record the Greatness of the current empire and it's figureheads.

 

Dominion only serves to sway governance/control/dependance away from the self to elsewhere. Servitude aka slavery. Today it's financial bondage.

 

And peace is subjective. Once control has been established, policing and suppression is enforced with prejudice to ensure stability -with the peoples knowing they'll get the strong arm of the law losing more freedoms dare they step out of line (even heresy was illegal) 'peace' certainly does last .. on the surface.

Btw, once you dominate the globe, the 'brightest and best' are encouraged to establish the way of life to ensure prosperity to suit the pyramid. So it no surprise the arts, sciences and language remain.

 

Keep that in mind before you hail Caesar, bucko

 

so in the words of the dovahkiin.. "FUS.."

[handerseight2]

sorry, that was an unhelpful triade

[ginnyfizz]

Yes, it was unhelpful. Not all empires are evil, although there may be shameful acts in any long enduring empire, however benign the overall regime. The Empire in Skyrim very much resembles the Roman and even the later British empire in that. The Pax Romana and the Pax Britannica brought much benefit, and were certainly not evil, but that is not to say that there was no wrongdoing. No powerful nation or Empire can ever do everything right by everybody.

 

"Tribal peoples' moderated culture has far out lived risen and fallen empire by millenia"

 

It may well have done, but MODERATED? I would not exactly use that term. Uh...I have two words on that subject. Afghanistan and Taliban. Definitely not moderate, especially if you're female.

Given power, the Stormcloaks could descend into a similar kind of extreme regime - definitely not moderate if you are an elf. Or a Breton, Redguard or Imperial come to that.

[raptorclw]

I see your point (albeit a little too aggressive for my taste).

 

I could venture that cultural advancement is worth the price of a few civil liberties and savage "moderation". Medicine, astrology and physics were developed by civilized people that were NOT easily content. Their need for knowledge (and gold, and power) was not easily satiated. And that's why they did so much.

 

Shepherds will be shepherds and farmers will be farmers.. wherever. You are right. They are eternal. They require little and offer little in return. They are as ancient as the first Homo Sapiens to tread this Earth.

 

Preventing another rant, most advances that our race made were due to people that pushed forward no matter the cost. Stormcloaks seem to take a step back, not forward. Their reasons are purely racial. They are seggregationists.. nationalists.. they see only their own interest. Their own small country. Their own small race of people (AS IF there's such thing as a pure racial/ethnical region).

 

Anyway, look at what some of the large empires did to our planet:

1. Egypt 2. Roman Empire 3. Byzantine Empire 4. Holy Roman Empire 5. Austro-German Habsburg Empire 6. British Empire

 

Everything we have is because of them. Medicine. Art. Science. The power to travel, laugh, enjoy our life. Empires push forward. Without large empires, no advances are made. Without advances we would still be farming our own land, dying of small pox, have a life expectancy of 40 and never travel more than 100km outside the tiny village we were born in.

 

I will not willingly split an Empire into parts and weaken it. Look at what the Vandals and Huns did to the Roman Empire because it was weak. It took the world almost a thousand years to recover. We would be on Mars now if not for the Roman decline. Does that affect the ignorant farmers in a small village in my small country? No. Of course not. That does not mean it's not important.

[handerseight2]

I guess I aught to repeat my apology for

 

1. It being totally uncalled for. It was hostile to which I'm certainly not proud of.

2. We're all entitled to our own opinions.

3. I enjoy Skyrim like you guys.

And 4. This isn't the forum for such discussion.

 

If I thought I could sway an opposing opinion through a chat and thought I was right and everyone else was wrong then maybe I'd give it a go but as it is I'm not God and don't know everything (maybe I know jack for all I know) I only live my life so can't see through the eyes of someone else and know what they know.

 

But still from my stance, I have my views on empire and dominion. I don't believe farming offers little, I think it's a staple we still depend on today. I'm fairly certain our queen doesn't consider herself equal to me, you or anyone we have ever met no matter the level of love and respect we may hold for the various peoples in our lives. I don't personally feel I owe emotion to empire. I'd note that considering the tribal peoples have outlived the rise and fall of empires the life, expectancy and vulnerability to disease hasn't managed to wipe them out successfully and I'd be quick to direct attention to the intervening occupiers introducing foreign threats into a balanced system.

 

As far as how Afghani women are treated it's hard to comment from the outside but I know women in the u.k. only had right to equal treatment since the 1960's. And the sense of equality is debatable. I don't need to wax, shave, put my face on and dress semi-provocatively in order to be socially acceptable before I want to go outside and still face judgment which only affects my self-esteem. And unless I'm sexualised (with my attractiveness being examined) I'd be considered a tomboy or a lesbian or just simply unattractive. And to compound it there still isn't equal pay. I don't have the first clue of womanhood. I wasn't dressed in pink the moment I was out of the womb and fussed over with barbie and tea sets and baby dolls to guide my outlook nor puberty from a girls perspective where grown men started paying attention to me and solidified my sense of femininity.

Again, I'm coming across aggressive and don't believe this is the forum for such debate. The apologise ARE sincere. I believe women are not only equal but are far beyond what society imposes.

 

I'll stop right there, offending people isn't what I want. And further responding to comments will likely only sound disrespectful and like I said before I'm far from perfect and can only view the world from my own eyes.

 

Initally I did say I didn't particularly want to fall on either side of the Skyrim war. Given the choice my preference would be to poddle off into the mountains of High Hrothgar and find serenity and wise council from the venerable Greybeards, honing my Thu'um.

 

So sorry people if there's been a tone of venom, I was incredulous and dismayed not because people actually have their own opinions but because responsibility for real suffering in this world I place firmly at the door of elites - the poor getting poorer while the rich get richer, new law further infringing on human rights and liberties, increasingly outrageous criminal behaviour by the well-to-do not being held accountable or altogether creating law to make them exempt. I find it all very upsetting.

I should take my own advice and disappear in the mountains of Tibet and find innerpeace.

 

So again to those I may have offended, I'm truly ashamed and sorry.