Ignorance is Bliss

[draconix]

I watched the whole thing, I don't completely disagree with everything she has to say, just a few points.

 

For instance, I agree that it takes a certain amount of cognitive dissonance for our troops to be able to continue to fight this charade of a war and still be gung-ho about it. Unless they somehow really think it's still a just war, which she would say makes them stupid or ignorant, which I disagree with. It only means that I disagree with them. However, If they feel the way that I do about the war, then they are probably morally compromised as she put it, which is no way to be. I would hope that a morally compromised soldier would find a way out of the military as quickly as possible, in any country. Everybody's first loyalty should be to their own morals and standards. If those are in conflict with your job, it is your duty to change your job, not your morals.

 

Of course every group of thought will have it's radicals, and she's probably too abrasive in the video for anyone to want to listen to her, regardless of what she's actually saying.

[hoofhearted4]

I confess. I didn't watch it.

 

I didn't read all the posts.

 

(I don't give a damn if you don't read mine.)

 

Why am I replying? Because I think it's kind of -- what's a nice way to put this?

 

Why would you give this woman a voice, and a forum to spout her obvious inanity? Why do you pay attention to things that don't deserve attention? Why piddle away precious time and energy you could be using on something or someone worthwhile? That's a primary example of what's wrong with society in general. No separating the wheat from the chaff. So what? She's another ninny, they're literally a dime a dozen.

 

Life is short.

 

why did i watch it in the first place? because a friend of mine posted it on facebook. didnt know what it was, so i watched it. so at the time, how did i know it didnt deserve attention?.....on another note, a huge pet peeve of mine is when ppl say stuff like why did you waste 5 minutes of your time and energy and blah blah blah. it took my 5 minutes to watch that video. there is nothing in this world i could devote that same 5 minutes to to better my life or the world. and out of the 80+ years im expected to live, 5 minutes is no precious time. i agree that society worries to much about what other ppl do (case and point, how obsessed ppl are with jersey shore, the kardashians, every reality tv show on mtv, im getting deja vu lol) but i disagree life is short. its quite long actually. we are one of the longest living animals out there, with the ability (unlike any other animal) to live past our expected life span of 72 years (i think, dont quote) not only by luck and exercise, but medicine as well. and maybe im naive because im only 21 (in fact thats most certainly the reason) but until im old, life is long.

 

I watched the whole thing, I don't completely disagree with everything she has to say, just a few points.

 

For instance, I agree that it takes a certain amount of cognitive dissonance for our troops to be able to continue to fight this charade of a war and still be gung-ho about it. Unless they somehow really think it's still a just war, which she would say makes them stupid or ignorant, which I disagree with. It only means that I disagree with them. However, If they feel the way that I do about the war, then they are probably morally compromised as she put it, which is no way to be. I would hope that a morally compromised soldier would find a way out of the military as quickly as possible, in any country. Everybody's first loyalty should be to their own morals and standards. If those are in conflict with your job, it is your duty to change your job, not your morals.

 

Of course every group of thought will have it's radicals, and she's probably too abrasive in the video for anyone to want to listen to her, regardless of what she's actually saying.

 

see i disagree. as i said, ppl join the military because they want to. they know what they are getting into when the join, whether they joined before 2001 or after. they cant pick and choose their battles, their wars. most ppl wouldnt join the military if they knew they might some day be morally compromised about their situation. thats not always the case i know, but its the majority. im glad so many soldier are dedicated to our military, if they could pick and choose their battles then we wouldnt have much of a military outside of a draft.....and no matter what, i never ever ever blame or diresepect a soldier because i dis agree with their cause. that is a political thing. i disrespect out government for what they do with our military, not the soldiers in them. in my eyes, soldiers/veterans, young and old are heroes. period.

[BlackRampage]

I didn't bother watching the vid either. The first couple of replies said enough about what an utter waste of time it would be to watch it.

 

I just read the debate that followed it. Far more interesting. Far more interesting individuals too whom have obviously given far more thought to this subject then some self-important nobody who just has to add to the ruin of what was once a great medium.

 

see i disagree. as i said, ppl join the military because they want to. they know what they are getting into when the join, whether they joined before 2001 or after. they cant pick and choose their battles, their wars. most ppl wouldnt join the military if they knew they might some day be morally compromised about their situation. thats not always the case i know, but its the majority. im glad so many soldier are dedicated to our military, if they could pick and choose their battles then we wouldnt have much of a military outside of a draft.....and no matter what, i never ever ever blame or diresepect a soldier because i dis agree with their cause. that is a political thing. i disrespect out government for what they do with our military, not the soldiers in them. in my eyes, soldiers/veterans, young and old are heroes. period.

I agree completely. :thumbsup:

 

If you don't agree with the war, go and take it up with those who were responsible for starting it (and that's including Bin Laden and his "followers").

Don't go spit in the face (sometimes literally :facepalm: ) of those who fight and die in it.

[Quetzlsacatanango]

There is something to what Draconix is saying.

It is a volunteer military, and when you join up, you know there is the possibility, maybe probability depending on what you sign up for, that there is going to be some killing.

You know that it will be up to a bunch of corrupt politicians to decide who, when, and where you have to shoot, and you and your own values and preferences.

So that is a choice you make, and you do have to weigh the morality of that.

[roquefort]

Nothing would have happened either way. It took us ten years to get rid of Al Qaeda leadership. They should of been able to attack us again in that time.

 

We need to intervene if there is a threat that can hurt us continuously.

Maybe it's exactly because the US intervened that they were unable to hurt the US continuously? Isn't that the whole point of intervening? Isn't that the number 1 reason why they invaded Afghanistan?

 

Either way invading random middle eastern countries is not the most effective method of capturing terrorists.

Then what is? I wouldn't say it was all that random. And what if a country is found harboring those terrorists?

Hmm. Smash the hypothetical threat. How far down that particular hall of mirrors are we supposed to we go??

[roquefort]

"It is a volunteer military, and when you join up, you know there is the possibility, maybe probability depending on what you sign up for, that there is going to be some killing."

 

..and if you're a poor boy with no job prospects in your town, and your chances of actually being killed or injured in battle are minimal (as they actually are in the modern Western military), and the money looks good, then patriotic blablabla is probably not the most urgent driving impulse..

[roquefort]

Please don't patronise. Marharth quite clearly stated that he didn't approve of "The military defending nothing but foreign countries". That's his own words. Which he then had to somewhat qualify.

 

It may sometimes be in the strategic interests of the USA to have a finger in the pie, and boots on the ground, particularly in the Middle East. This girl understands only too well that there are probably a lot of things that we don't get told that lead governments to make such decisions.

Don't stint with the cringing. But that aside, when it comes to inflicting explosives on other countries and their people, I'd say that we should be told exactly why it's being done; yes?

 

In any event I have the, possibly mistaken, impression from previous posts of yours that overweening, secretive, government is something of a bête noire in your world.

Edited November 16, 2011 by roquefort

[ginnyfizz]

No need for personal attacks, ie remarks about cringing.

 

Whether we should be told things or not, we don't get told, and we even get lied to (Tony Bliar, you know who you are....). No I don't like overweening, secretive government, and nor do I accept that old "nothing to hide...nothing to fear" chestnut, because the experience of family members in the old Eastern Bloc has taught me differently.

 

But I've been around long enough to realise that once elected, governments can do a lot of things without the need to explain (in their own minds) until the next ballot box session, which can be as much as five years hence or whatever the term in a particular country is, and that is a long time in politics. And sending troops to put their lives on the line is one of the things they do best. Unfortunately for the troops.

 

What I was remarking on from marharth was him blanket condemning US troops fighting in any foreign theatre, which tended to imply a contempt for non Americans. Because sometimes, it really is necessary to go to war abroad.

[marharth]

What I was remarking on from marharth was him blanket condemning US troops fighting in any foreign theatre, which tended to imply a contempt for non Americans. Because sometimes, it really is necessary to go to war abroad.

Not any foreign country.

 

My point was that you should not say that the military is defending your freedom when they are fighting overseas in a unjustified war.

 

The US involvement World War Two made sense considering the axis were a serious threat, and in that case the military was defending our freedom. I think we could of done quite a few things differently at different times, but that is for another topic.

[Aurielius]

What I was remarking on from marharth was him blanket condemning US troops fighting in any foreign theatre, which tended to imply a contempt for non Americans. Because sometimes, it really is necessary to go to war abroad.

Roftl ......If it was at home it would be called insurrection or invasion, the whole point of having a war abroad is not to have it come to your own shore. :whistling: