Dragon Overhall

[Btasty]

As I played through Skyrim I felt disappointed with dragons. Their overall behavior was rather predictable, they had balance issues, they weren't that difficult nor were they that terrifying. Although they will probably be one of the hardest things to mod I think they deserve a lot of attention as they are one of Skyrim's defining aspects. Below are just a few of the ideas I have thought of. I would love feedback and new Ideas!

 

Note: I know that level doesn't really determine how powerful a character is at killing dragons so just be aware the term is being used loosely

 

Different types and maturities of dragons:

-Fledgling: Smaller-sized dragons. Should be a challenge for lower-levels, but easy for medium level players, Shouldn't even appear for or attack higher level players. As for abilities it should be restricted to simple things like breathing fire or ice but still have the full range of normal attacks and behaviors.

-Mature: Similar to the current dragons in Skyrim however should have a greater variety of magical abilities but only have access to a few of them per dragon. Their movements should have a greater affect on the player and surrounding characters (lands: ground shakes, flaps wings close to ground: people get pushed back ect)

-Elder: Larger then mature. Not overly large but enough to make a noticeable difference from mature. Only located in a few predetermined locations and should be challenging to even high-level characters. Should have a large variety of abilities at their command and their movements should drastically influence the surrounding environment.

-Abilities: I don't have much of an idea for what other types of abilities dragons should have but they should be unique and plentiful to keep dragons interesting.

-Dragon Fear: One ability I did have in mind was "Dragon Fear". In all honesty with maybe the exception of giants no animals should be trying to attack a dragon. During dragon fights I will have random creatures come and start fighting it which doesn't make any sense at all. The same goes for npc's. I don't think many bandits would attack a dragon when they had the chance to run. To put it simply it would be a passive ability that would scare away lower level (relative to the dragon) creatures and npc's. And yes that includes horses... (God damn Shadowmere ruining my dragon fights)

 

Dragon AI

-Improved targeting AI. This is mostly to deal with dragons attacking random creatures instead of attacking you.

-Improved Battle Tactics: Dragons imo are vastly intelligent magically creatures, yet in Skyrim this isn't really accurate when you fight them. Dragon's should try to counter how you are fighting them. If you are using ranged attacks they should get up close. If you have a high resistance to fire they shouldn't be using fire attacks all the time ect..

-Also as a side-note I feel like dragons should try to flee if they are too damaged. Every other creature in skyrim will try to surrender or flee if too damaged except dragons. Seems a bit unrealistic imo.

 

Body Damage:

-I realize that adding damage to specific parts of the body would make some styles of fighting more useful in dragon fights than others but then again Skyrim is supposed to be about creating an semi-realistic experience not and not making sure that every play style can fight dragons (Sorry people specializing in speech. No you cannot persuade a dragon to death).

-Wings and Tail: They enable the dragon to fly so If damaged enough they should cripple a dragons ability to fly (which would also prevent them from fleeing). Being vital points Dragons should also try to protecting them and target whomever is damaging them. Remember a downed dragon is a dead dragon =D

Edit: Fought some more dragons always targeting their wings and they do in fact take damage so my mistake there. However I noticed that even after their wings are crippled they tend to like to attempt to fly and then dramatically crash to ground. Not sure what is up with that.

 

Edit 2: Also though of a player ability to combat dragon fear. Perhaps an active called "Rally" or something to that affect, which will make npc's immune to dragonfear for a set duration. The effectiveness of this should be based on how many dragons you have slain. The basis behind this is the more dragons you have slain the more people feel confident of your abilities and are willing to follow you into battle.

 

Edit 3: Imo the rewards for killing dragon's is kind of lame. After the first couple of dragons getting bones,scales, gold and anything that was recently digested gets kind of old. I don't know how I feel about adding actual loot to dragons. It seems to detract from the realism a bit too much. Anyway seeing as you absorb the soul of a dragon and obtain a piece of its knowledge wouldn't it make sense that you also obtain a portion of its strength? This would only be done on perhaps special dragons (how they would be special I don't know). So you kill a fire dragon and absorb its soul and you say gain a permanent x% bonus to fire spells. This is assuming dragon fights become much harder and much rarer otherwise it would just become overpowered way to quickly. Just as a question to leave people pondering and has no real importance to this thread but if you absorb the soul of a dragon does that mean (realistically speaking) that you would become more dragon-like or your personality would?

 

On a side-note scrap that whole running away thing. Got further in the main storyline and dragons have great pride so they wouldn't run away from a fight.

 

Anyway those are just my quick thoughts on how dragons could possibly be improved. I know this is would probably be an enormous undertaking (I haven't done that much modding) but I felt like getting it out now. Plus whe should have at least 5 years before the next ES game. Thanks for reading!

Edited November 21, 2011 by Btasty

[NSCReaver]

Would like to see a lot of these at least tried. Although a dragon running away would have a hard time not getting away, as they fly pretty fast when they're not stuck. Dragons walking away would be funny to see, although not sure if that's a good thing.

 

As for improved battle tactics, that's what they do already, as far as the countering. As a melee fighter, I have to pull out a bow and wait for them to land, because if I keep my axe out, they keep on making passes in the air. Don't know about the multi-spell dragons, though. Makes sense in the Voice aspect, but on the other hand, should frost dragons really breathe fire occasionally? Food for thought.

 

I'd also like to see improvements to the flight paths, or the AI or whatever, for the dragons in combat if that's possible. They seem to fly sideways and backwards when they decide to change direction (which is often), making them even harder to hit, and the jarring direction changes take out a bit of realism in my opinion.

[vertex23]

They do counter your fighting style.

They do get crippled and no longer fly

I don't see how dragons can really learn magic outside of their breaths?

 

Their targeting does need improved though. It's pretty cheap that I survive dragon encounters because a Wolf walked by

[LoofSquared]

I'd like to ask you, Vertex, why wouldn't a dragon be able to learn other than their basic breaths? It's quite lore friendly they would, as their breaths are based on shouts which are based on dragon language which in turn enables forming just about anything you say in that language into magic.

[vertex23]

Shouts, sure, but I was thinking more of "Dragon uses Chain Lighting!"

[pussyranger]

the magic point is useless

but it mostly pisses me off that i have to chase the dragon, and getting him from air sometimes gets up to an hour cause the bastard just flys round above me not even coming in range for his breathing attacks, just trolls above me :(((

 

nonamed dragons attack everything btw.

named dragons mostly target you.

 

hitbox on dragons is very wight and you kinda stand 1 meter away from then and cant get any closer but still hitting air hits the dragon itself, dragons should btw. turn and move on ground about 10 - 20% faster, i can stay behind one and he will keep turning or just sadly stop and hit me with tail smashes OR fly away which then takes me a 15 minutes waiting before he lands again or just flys out of my range and disappears !

[NeoH222]

I agree on adding more behavior to the dragon. Lower level enemies should run away, guards should try to hold the dragon off, and of course the dragon should target the enemy which is most dangerous (AKA you). They should be the intelligent enemies that everyone fears, and be intelligent enough to provide a difficult fight. I don't think a dragon would stand around trying to bite your head off. No, if your trying to attack them from the ground, the best option for them is to keep in the air and keep breathing fire on you. If it can't get you with fire, it will try to get closer. And even then I want more attacks than bite, wing smash, and tail smash, alongside breathing fire.

[theplagueman]

I like your suggestions Btasty. One thing I would suggest is to possibly have some fledglings with the mature dragons in higher level encounters. It would change the monotony of dragon fights a little bit (Instead of 1v1) and would add a bit more of a challenge. And of course the fledglings would be quite easy to deal with as they would have the stats that they had when you fought them at a much lower level. I just think it would be neat to see a dragon and 1-3 fledglings fly over a city / camp and have a cool battle like that.

 

I do like the idea of the dragon fear. Possibly have NPCs (I'm thinking of mostly guards here) but somewhat terrified of a dragon when they first see one. Not all would be scared, just a few, but when they see you take up the battle against the dragon they might be "inspired" to keep on fighting. Maybe if the dragon kills one of the friendly NPCs they would realize the dragon is actually really powerful and might become "feared" again.

 

Nice suggestions, would love to see these implemented into the game.

[KrazyTrumpeter05]

Don't much care what kind of mods come out for dragons as long as they make them harder than freaking random trolls I run across. Dragons are waaaaaaaaay too easy to kill, especially at my level (24). They should be hitting harder and have more HP, I don't even have to pop potions anymore, yet trolls still terrify me. Edited November 16, 2011 by KrazyTrumpeter05

[FonicStereo]

I've yet to finish the game, so correct me if i'm wrong here, but the main thing I have found disappointing about the dragons is not so much how mediocre they are in a fight, but rather the methods you and the rest of Skyrim have to combat them.

 

These things are swooping through the sky setting fire to villages and villagers, yet all the Nords have at their disposal to fight them in the air are bows and arrows (ignoring magic, given their heavy prejudice). Why don't they build some siege equipment? Ballistas and the like to bring these huge creatures down to size?

 

Maybe firing ballista bolts tethered to the stone walls or something similar to ensnare them?

 

Secondly, once the dragons land they rush in with swords and axes. Why no polearms? Huge pikes to engage these (apparently) ferocious beasts whilst keeping those precious body parts as far away as possible.

 

Overall I think the main reasons that the dragons seem so underwhelming is because Bethesda just relied on their trusted Melee/Bow/Magic combat systems for the player to fight them, although it would be a bit unfair for a melee character if a dragon could just swallow them whole as soon as they got close enough. If they had introduced other combat mechanics to cripple the beasts before rushing in with a sword and shield, maybe it would make the fights more interesting. The Shouts do this to some extent, but I haven't got the shout yet that sucks dragons out of the sky and breaks their wings (if that even exists :P).

 

Perhaps ballistas and pikes would be a bit too ambitious to mod in, but I do like the OP's suggestions, particularly with regards to Dragons fleeing when they're low on health. If you can't cripple their wings and ability to fly though, they should be able to get away fairly easily unless the player is a high level mage or archer.