Total Realism Overhaul

[Lardtree3]

It is also very silly that you can dive naked in the Northern frozen ocean of Skyrim and surviving even if you are not a Nord. I mean water there should be like -30 Celcius degrees,which is lower than the temperature where water turns to ice.

 

Actually, the water in the Arctic on our own Earth never goes below -2 degrees Celcius (about 28 degrees Farenheit). The salt in the water as well as the sheer volume prevents the water from freezing. Now, I'm not arguing that you shouldn't take damage from diving in these waters without proper protection (be it magical or otherwise). I was just being pedantic :biggrin:

 

When creating a comprehensive realism mod, I cannot stress enough the importance of making it configurable by the player. Preferences vary. Each player will have their own opinion on the ideal balance between realism and gameplay.

 

This times one hundred. As comprehensive as this mod intends to be, there has to be a great deal of control for every user. This will also increase the interest in the mod overall since it's highly likely that there will be a number of people who will like 60-90% of the features, but one very important feature that they deem disruptive or, most importantly, not fun could prevent them from bothering with it at all. Giving people control over such a large number of features will allow people to customize their experience to be the most fun for them. The scope of this mod has the potential to be one of the most popular mods for Skyrim if it comes to fruition and allows users to control their own fun.

 

Quick Edit: After reading a bit more of the thread, I'm very glad to see your intent of making this as customizable as possible. I'm working on some possible additions/ideas for your feature list and I may PM them to you since it is getting quite lengthy :thumbsup:

[Thasic]

I would humbly suggest you make the entire realism system modular. Thus an individual could choose which aspects he or she wishes to use, not unlike Arwen's mod for FONV. I have not actually even started the game yet as I am waiting for certain mods to crop up, such as this one, so I can't really say what I think of any changes as I haven't seen the vanilla yet, but realism mods have always been a must for me.

[Oomo]

 

Actually, the water in the Arctic on our own Earth never goes below -2 degrees Celcius (about 28 degrees Farenheit). The salt in the water as well as the sheer volume prevents the water from freezing. Now, I'm not arguing that you shouldn't take damage from diving in these waters without proper protection (be it magical or otherwise). I was just being pedantic :biggrin:

 

You can die from Hypothermia in 13 minutes in any water temperature lower than 32 degrees F

[Lardtree3]

 

Actually, the water in the Arctic on our own Earth never goes below -2 degrees Celcius (about 28 degrees Farenheit). The salt in the water as well as the sheer volume prevents the water from freezing. Now, I'm not arguing that you shouldn't take damage from diving in these waters without proper protection (be it magical or otherwise). I was just being pedantic :biggrin:

 

You can die from Hypothermia in 13 minutes in any water temperature lower than 32 degrees F

 

Like I said, I wasn't debating whether you should take damage from it or not, just that temps of -30 degrees Celsius are a bit absurd.

[Mansh00ter]

Just popping in to say thanks to all for their suggestions, there are many I like, unfortunately some are probably not doable due to the way game engine works (for example I think we'll be lucky if I the game supports hitboxes so I can make a nice locational damage/wound system, but even if it does it will be limited to body areas such as torso, legs, arms, head - armor sweetspots are too specific).

 

Note that there is NO locational damage in Skyrim, so I'm hoping they simply turned off the awesome locational damage Fallout games had, and not completely removed it from the engine.

 

Once the CK comes out I'll quickly find out what can and what can't be done.

 

When it comes to freezing water, I plan on scripting it - depending on the level of flexibility and freedom the scripting engine allows there may be several approaches I take.

 

The one I currently favor entails slowing down the player as soon as they spend more than a minute in freezing water (maybe modulating that time according to players health), more and more as time passes, until they can barely move, then applying a forced downward motion (forcing them to the bottom) and applying low damage over time. The player should die of drowning before they die of freezing. The forced downward motion would also be a part of a script preventing players from swimming in deep water with a full suit of heavy armor on (the amount of force would be calculated based on current encumberance and gradually increased the more time the player spends swimming).

I also would need to build in some sort of a failsafe to prevent players from saving a moment before they start being dragged under (basically creating an inescapable situation), maybe a script reset when the game loads (which is abusable, but I'm not concerned with preventing players from gaming the system). So as you can see, it gets complicated. :)

 

Of course, whether all that can actually be scripted depends on what will be doable within the scripting language and the engine itself (detecting that the player is swimming, standing in water etc.)

[Ahrro]

Wow, all the best of luck to you with this mod. I'll be keeping an eye on this, and recommending it to others when we start seeing releases. You'll have your hands full, but if you can pull it off, you will quickly become my favorite modder. xD

[OnceNDone628]

Overhaul of the Unarmed skill, maybe adding some martial arts stuff. A hidden skill where every level adds +1 to your damage...

[Trochannah]

There are a lot of good (some great, some poor) suggestions in this thread, and I feel trying to pack all of these features into a single, unified mod will be quite the tall order. For the OP, I recommend releasing these mechanics in separate, smaller batches so that you can focus on singular objectives at a time and thus provide more quality modifications than if you tried fitting everything under a single name. For example, try implementing the food/nutrition system first and fix any issues that may pop up regarding it. Once that is fixed and works to a comfortable degree, move on to something else like weather mechanics, stealth and crime, melee combat, archery combat, offensive magic, defensive magic, potions and poisons, bandages and bleeding, etc.

 

Trying to do everything at once is a quick recipe for disaster since it'll easily go over your head. You may be an experienced modder, but even the best programmers can get swamped with objectives.

 

Also, regarding suggestions, I cannot agree with Magicka not regenerating passively. (I don't know if this was suggested by you or suggested by somebody else, but I've seen it brought up in this thread) Magicka as a resource should be made more dynamic than it currently is instead of being exemplified as an "all or nothing" resource, which makes Magicka very much irrelevant as a resource... Until you run out, in which case you're screwed unless you start chugging a Magicka potion. My explanation here is a bit... Long-winded, so I'll consolidate it into a spoiler for those who want to read it:

 

 

A combination of how much Magicka one has and how much Magicka one has remaining (percentage-wise) should be take into consideration regarding how effective spells used by the Mage are. The effectiveness of a spell should increase by 2% for every 10 Magicka a Mage has above baseline amount (100). The equation to figure out spell power would be ((Total Magicka-100)/10)*Percentage Modifier. For example, a Mage with 300 Magicka will have 40% stronger spells than a character with no investment into Magicka. ((300-100)/10)*2% = 40%. The Percentage Modifier (2%), or individual perks in the skill trees, can be easily adjusted if spells become too powerful.

 

The second mechanic that determines a spell's strength would be how much Magicka, percentage-wise, the Mage has remaining. Spells cast when the Mage is at or above 80% Magicka will have 100% effectiveness (normal power). However, any spells cast when the Mage is below 80% start to become weaker. For every 1% Magicka the Mage has below 80%, spells become 1.5% weaker. The cap to this weakening of spells would be 90%, meaning that a Mage's Destruction spells, for example, would deal 90% less damage if the Mage is sitting at 20% or less total Magicka remaining. Let's say a Mage with 450 Magicka casts a Firebolt spell, which, for the sake of discussion, deals 25 points of Fire damage. ((450-100)/10)*2 would make the Firebolt deal 70% more damage, which is (25/0.7)+25 = 42.5 Fire damage. If the Mage was at 57% Magicka when casting the Firebolt, however, we then do (80-57)*1.5 which equals out to 34.5%, meaning we deduct 34.5% effectiveness from the Firebolt. The Firebolt ultimately does 42.5-(42.5*0.345) = ~27.8 Fire damage in total.

 

For spells like Raise Zombie, Soul Trap, Telekinesis, etc. that don't have an obvious offensive or defensive element that can be weakened, secondary effects like duration or range can be weakened instead. For example, using Raise Zombie at 79%< Magicka means the zombie will last for less than 60 sec, or using Soul Trap at 79%< Magicka means that the Soul Trap spell will have a shorter duration on the target. For spells like Telekinesis or Detect Life, you'll be restricted from picking up heavier objects if you're at sub-optimal Magicka, or you'll detect only weaker opponents at a closer range if your Magicka isn't high.

 

Spells like Courage or Fear that only affect certain level targets could be changed so that they instead consume a total percentage of your Magicka pool (such as 25% of your total Magicka) and only affect opponents of a certain level in relation to how much Magicka was consumed. The equation for this would be ((Total Magicka*0.25)/3), 3 being an exponential scaling factor. For example, if a Mage has 500 Magicka and uses Fear, the spell will consume (500*0.25) = 125 Magicka, divided by 3 = Level ~41.6 (rounded down to 41) NPC's are affected. Since 3 is an exponential factor, this means the level opponent you're able to affect with these spells decreases in relation to your level over time; a level 5 Mage with all attributes put into Magicka (150 Magicka) will be able to Fear a level 12 NPC, where-as a level 35 Mage with all attributes put into Magicka (450 Magicka) will only be able to Fear a level 37 NPC. This is because the additional Magicka bonus you're bound to find on gear as you level up will balance out this discrepancy (a level 35 Mage will have +Magicka bonuses on gear, allowing these spells to still be comparatively powerful as they were at a lower level). These spells will not be affected by how much Magicka you initially have when casting them, but their expensive costs at all levels mean you'll want to be careful how often they are used; they use the same resource as your other spells, after all, which require that same Magicka to be effective. Higher level versions of these spells (like Rout or Rally) are removed from the game due to irrelevance.

 

In addition to the above, all enchantments, perks, blessings, etc. that increase your Magicka regeneration will be removed and replaced with effects that increase the effectiveness of such spells (by a small degree, to help better balance Enchanting and similar bonuses). All characters will simply regenerate approximately 5% of their total Magicka every second, and only 2% of their total Magicka while casting or channeling a spell. If a Mage has 200 Magicka, he/she will regenerate 10 Magicka every second while not casting, and 4 Magicka per second while casting or channeling a spell.

 

What does all this mean? It means that Magicka is now a relevant resource from start to finish. Numbers like the percentage modifier and the spell weakening cap can be changed if you prefer, but the concept is what matters; making how much Magicka the Mage has affect how powerful his/her spells are. This would make playing as a Mage more dynamic since the resource itself, Magicka, the bread and butter of being a Mage, is made more dynamic than before. All of a sudden managing your Magicka matters a lot more than from a simple "if I run out of Magicka, I can't cast spells" standpoint, which currently makes Magicka meaningless until you are literally bone dry of Magicka. You'll want to manage your Magicka throughout your entire time playing because your spells become weaker with the less Magicka you have. You may be required to use less powerful spells during lulls in combat in order to conserve Magicka, and then use more powerful spells when you actually need them.

 

This also means that the complexity of playing a Mage expands as you grow and become more powerful, because not only are you obtaining more spells but the spells you used before begin to take on a new role in your play style and continue to be relevant. For example, a low level Mage will eventually run out of Magicka by spamming Flames on a target, but as this Mage grows in level, Flames will eventually become Magicka-neutral in cost (your passive regeneration equals that of the cost of Flames, meaning your Magicka bar remains static while casting it) and eventually even Magicka-positive (your passive regeneration is greater than the sustained cost of Flames, meaning you'll continue to regenerate your Magicka bar even while channeling Flames). This means that, at a later level, the Flames spell becomes a "filler" spell the Mage can use freely while saving his/her Magicka for more intensive, powerful spells, like Incinerate or Firestorm. Trying to use only powerful spells would be inefficient because you're burning through your entire Magicka pool in order to cast them, which means they'll be weaker than using naturally-weaker spells in your arsenal. This ultimately means that weaker spells like Flames, Healing, Raise Zombie, etc. will still be effective and relevant in high-level combat despite the existence of stronger spells.

 

 

I will probably make a separate post regarding the revamp to Magicka shown in the spoiler, (considering it's kind of off topic) but I felt like sharing it here in case the OP was interested in the idea of a dynamic Magicka system. Anyways, time to read up on past pages I missed while typing this. :P

Edited January 8, 2012 by Trochannah

[tgtopsecret]

I like this idea and would like to give input.(I didnt read the whole thing so dont bother me if i restate an idea)

 

Survival Changes:

 

• 
   
  
• After being wounded having some sort of unconscious meter. (Like your badly wounded and you eventually pass out because of it.)
  
• Being able to fall asleep anywhere. (say your in the woods and exhausted, instead of waiting you just fall asleep. you could be woken up by an attack or in another place)
  
• Meats from wolves and such.
  
• If wounded and exhausted theres a chance adrenaline will keep you awake for a bit.
  
• New alchemy recipes for certain disease ailments. (one potion wont cure every disease)
  
• The option to turn to cannibalism if needed. (can cause diseases)
  
• If exhausted attacks/attack rates are slower, hit with less damage.
  
• New alchemy recipe's for stimlants. (Tamriel equivalents of coffee beans, steriods, drugs- like weed to hold down food for that disease-)
  
• The possibility of going insane from food deprivation, affects companion also.
  
• "combat, sprinting (maybe even running for long periods of time), intense spellcasting and other physically/mentally intensive activities reduce the time before the player needs to sleep" Add shouts to the list.
  
• Torches Provide minor heat.
  
• "environmental hazards; going around scantily dressed in a blizzard will not be good for your health" If you have The Companions' "specialty" you aren't as effected
  
• Wounds get infected. If "Full Dismemberment" is added there should be an OPTION for hard-hardcore players of amputation. Argonians regenerate. Some sort of prosthetic for others. MAYBE magic regen
  

 

Combat Overhaul:

 

• 
   
  
• A Counter-striking system where is someone is using a heavy attack you can dodge and quick attack.
  
• Location Damage Variety. (Being stabbed in the arm isnt as painful as the stomach)
  
• "health can be restored only though magic, potions or other proper healing methods (sleeping or eating have no effect)" Dissagree. If wounded with a blunt weapon physical aid and sleep should be required.
  
• Along with ^ the one handed/two handed weapon categories should be seperated like in dead island. (I.E. blunt and sharp are different. a Waraxe and a Warhammer are different)
  
• Uncleaned blood attracts wild beasts. Could scare off some enemies.
  

 

Stealth and Crime Overhaul:

 

• 
   
  
• Certain pieces of clothing and armor can hide your appearance (I.E. you cant tell who you are in daedric armor)
  
• This is a bit out there: being able to be covered in mud to avoid being undetected by ferals. (it could possibly have similar code to being wet. Also falls under Survival Sub-Category hygiene)
  

[747823]

Can you please rename this from "Overhaul" to something else? I'm really sick of seeing mods named "x overhaul", when they completely change something. The official defintion is:

 

"Noun: A thorough examination of machinery or a system, with repairs or changes made if necessary."

 

Hardly any of the changes from the mod are necessary, and they aren't simply "repairs". Something that fixes balance or fixes bugs or fixes other problems in the existing game is an overhaul. I would call this a "Redesign" because that's what it is.

 

Aside from that it sounds good.

Edited January 9, 2012 by 747823