Stop Internet Censorship!

[SilverDNA]

A few thousand americans with guns could end this circus in less than one day.

*Knock Knock*

In what fictional dream Please ?

1st you need hundred thousands and for every American who picks up a gun to end this and there is one American that raises its gun for it against you , if you rally them in that way.

Btw does that set-up remind you of something? : "History repeating itself!"

Think about 150 years back in American history .. Got it ?

You cant win freedom with weapons in your hand ... like I said before some posts ago "fear never made someone free..."

Nope Internet freedom can't be archived by sabotage, by arms or by violent force, but by honest and non violent protest and opposition with arguments. You can make the internet free with a valid argument that is more worth than thousands of weapons.

Edited January 18, 2012 by SilverDNA

[AutoPumpaction]

As i said.

 

AutoPumpaction

What do you think the 2nd Amendment is for? It isn't about hunting or just selfdefence, its an predetermined breaking point to overthrow a tyranical government.

 

 

 

You cant win freedom with weapons in your hand ... like I said before some posts ago "fear never made someone free..."

Thats a lie and a try to undermining the morale of defense preparedness. The Swiss raised their Pitchforks against the Nobles and gain freedome, they still have automatic Firearms in many households. The germans raised their arms many times and gained short periods of freedome. The Americans rised their arms and kicked out the british. You already have freedome if you carry a weapon because it isn't so easy anymore to force you to something. And this thing isn't just about the internet anymore. Thats just another step to limit the focus of future debates. Government gained to much power and governments alsways abuse their power, because their power is abuse itself. It was never espectet by the Founders to give Washington any power about the states, it was never espectet to have such thing as a federal government which regulates anything. Thats why they have the right and duty to bear arms.

 

Hey they arrest people for selling lemonade or grow their own gardens. What do you think will happen next?

[psychohampster]

That man (Lamar Smith) actually makes me ashamed to be a Texan, rest assured I never voted him into office.

 

Seque:

 

And all I can see a couple thousands americans with guns accomplishing is a blood bath.

 

Laws placed into being or stopped with force are fragile at best and have no legitmacy of tradition or constitutional backing.

 

There are millions of people who right now do not understand fully what PIPA and SOPA really man but are willing to believe that they are truly harmful, resorting to violence or simply becoming angry is more likley to turn them away and disgust them, forming their opinion of Anti-SOPA supporters as biggoted and violent extremists.

[AutoPumpaction]

And all I can see a couple thousands americans with guns accomplishing is a blood bath.

 

Unhappy it is though to reflect, that a Brother's Sword has been sheathed in a Brother's breast, and that, the once happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with Blood, or Inhabited by Slaves.

- George Washington.(Owner of 188 Slaves)

 

 

Life is not all roses. Decisions have to been made.

[Arthmoor]

A few thousand americans with guns could end this circus in less than one day.

*Knock Knock*

In what fictional dream Please ?

In no fictional dream. You're living in a country right now that was freed using guns.

 

1st you need hundred thousands and for every American who picks up a gun to end this and there is one American that raises its gun for it against you , if you rally them in that way.

Btw does that set-up remind you of something? : "History repeating itself!"

Think about 150 years back in American history .. Got it ?

Though I'm pretty sure AutoPumpaction was being sarcastic when he posted it, you're missing the target here if you think it would be American vs American. In all likelihood a scenario that brought us to the use of guns to overthrow our government would mean having the backing of our volunteer military.

 

Without them, there would be little chance of a popular uprising against some issue surviving longer than a few days. I can assure you an anti-piracy bill circulating through Congress isn't going to be sufficient to rally the troops on either side. For the most part, most people simply don't care and it won't affect them anyway.

 

You cant win freedom with weapons in your hand ... like I said before some posts ago "fear never made someone free..."

Nope Internet freedom can't be archived by sabotage, by arms or by violent force, but by honest and non violent protest and opposition with arguments. You can make the internet free with a valid argument that is more worth than thousands of weapons.

Someone should tell that to the founders of the United States then. The American Revolution was our freedom being won precisely by a whole lot of people taking up arms and forcing the British off the continent. And again in 1812 when they though to take advantage of our overreach in attacking Canada.

[SilverDNA]

A few thousand americans with guns could end this circus in less than one day.

*Knock Knock*

In what fictional dream Please ?

In no fictional dream. You're living in a country right now that was freed using guns.

 

History seen through pink glasses. Why I ask you they voted for the tyrant and why no one want to be on his side as the foreign guns moved in? Any similarity to any other American liberation on foreign country's ? And why did my people used the psychological term of "self deceit" as defence and why ? Freedom through force of weapons, through force and fear ... Hmmm and the results .. you get a silent opposition that is doing things behind your back secretly or you get an open liberation by a rebellion ... and you posted it your self in your last argument. now take your pick of what my country historical did in reality... the self deceit lives on... and is lurking

 

1st you need hundred thousands and for every American who picks up a gun to end this and there is one American that raises its gun for it against you , if you rally them in that way.

Btw does that set-up remind you of something? : "History repeating itself!"

Think about 150 years back in American history .. Got it ?

Though I'm pretty sure AutoPumpaction was being sarcastic when he posted it, you're missing the target here if you think it would be American vs American. In all likelihood a scenario that brought us to the use of guns to overthrow our government would mean having the backing of our volunteer military.

 

Without them, there would be little chance of a popular uprising against some issue surviving longer than a few days. I can assure you an anti-piracy bill circulating through Congress isn't going to be sufficient to rally the troops on either side. For the most part, most people simply don't care and it won't affect them anyway.

 

Not directly but when information is denied by a government it is a censorship. Can you guarantee by your constitution that not the wrong sites aren't affected and another self deceit happens like the one I mentioned in this post above? There I have my serious doubts.

 

You cant win freedom with weapons in your hand ... like I said before some posts ago "fear never made someone free..."

Nope Internet freedom can't be archived by sabotage, by arms or by violent force, but by honest and non violent protest and opposition with arguments. You can make the internet free with a valid argument that is more worth than thousands of weapons.

Someone should tell that to the founders of the United States then. The American Revolution was our freedom being won precisely by a whole lot of people taking up arms and forcing the British off the continent. And again in 1812 when they though to take advantage of our overreach in attacking Canada.

Question: "What would be the appropriate political and diplomatic reaction, if both from your side mentioned historic events would happen in the 21st century ?"

Edited January 19, 2012 by SilverDNA

[Arthmoor]

History seen through pink glasses.

Hardly. My glasses are perfectly clear, and the historical facts of the matter perfectly true.

 

Not directly but when information is denied by a government it is a censorship. Can you guarantee by your constitution that not the wrong sites aren't affected and another self deceit happens like the one I mentioned in this post above?

One can never absolutely guarantee this, even with a Constitution as powerful as ours which sets forth rights the government cannot abridge.

 

What you seem to be missing here is that the problem being addressed by SOPA/PIPA is with regard to criminal activity. Crime is not protected free speech. Our Supreme Court has ruled many times on that. Our laws give us tools with which to combat crime. SOPA/PIPA are tool to that end. Perhaps not perfect tools, but none of the protesters are coming up with an alternative that isn't the wild wild west of the 21st century.

 

At least Rep. Issa has come up with an alternative piece of legislation that may or may not be more appropriate to the issue. It's called the OPEN Act, and very few if any sites are mentioning it as a legitimate alternative. Usually what happens when people approach Congress with the attitude of "nobody touches my internet" it doesn't get you very far.

 

Piracy isn't going away. Nor are copyright holders who's works are being infringed. You scrap this bill, and you have absolutely no guarantee that what comes next won't be substantially worse.

 

Question: "What would be the appropriate political and diplomatic reaction, if both from your side mentioned historic events would happen in the 21st century ?"

If you are asking me what the appropriate response would be to a British occupation of North America in the 21st century, I'd say George Washington already answered that 250 years ago. The solution would be the same now as it was then. Expel them by force.

 

Otherwise I have no idea what you're asking me.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Arthmoor

[SilverDNA]

History seen through pink glasses.

Hardly. My glasses are perfectly clear, and the historical facts of the matter perfectly true.

Sorry but one of them seams to be broken because you are viewing it only from one eye on one side and if you would give me at least 24 h time for a translation of laws that aren't translated into English and a bit of telling you how they are used, I could scare you.. but I will only do it if you want it. Horror is best when the audience is prepared and I'm not Hitchcock, so please don't expect me to be a grand master in it.

 

Not directly but when information is denied by a government it is a censorship. Can you guarantee by your constitution that not the wrong sites aren't affected and another self deceit happens like the one I mentioned in this post above?

One can never absolutely guarantee this, even with a Constitution as powerful as ours which sets forth rights the government cannot abridge.

 

What you seem to be missing here is that the problem being addressed by SOPA/PIPA is with regard to criminal activity. Crime is not protected free speech. Our Supreme Court has ruled many times on that. Our laws give us tools with which to combat crime. SOPA/PIPA are tool to that end. Perhaps not perfect tools, but none of the protesters are coming up with an alternative that isn't the wild wild west of the 21st century.

 

At least Rep. Issa has come up with an alternative piece of legislation that may or may not be more appropriate to the issue. It's called the OPEN Act, and very few if any sites are mentioning it as a legitimate alternative. Usually what happens when people approach Congress with the attitude of "nobody touches my internet" it doesn't get you very far.

 

Piracy isn't going away. Nor are copyright holders who's works are being infringed. You scrap this bill, and you have absolutely no guarantee that what comes next won't be substantially worse.

 

Well wait till you get thought crimes and new speech when though and opinions are regulated well the path has been already cleared for such if you only look at SOPA / PIPA you don' get the whole picture if you look broader at the laws that are heavily debated in your country from the last, lets say 12 years then you might gain a picture that uses structures that can be again in relevance to the methods used in my country prior to your victory only make me nervous (and that's honestly put an euphemism, because i fear history repeating it self .. ) now please don't judge me too hard, I'm against Internet piracy, but I'm certainly against governmental abuses of laws and there my primary doubt goes in direct relevance to the patriot act and how it is handled by the U.S: Government if both only by accusation come together in some form anything breaks even your constitution and i don' want to see it in such manner.

 

Question: "What would be the appropriate political and diplomatic reaction, if both from your side mentioned historic events would happen in the 21st century ?"

If you are asking me what the appropriate response would be to a British occupation of North America in the 21st century, I'd say George Washington already answered that 250 years ago. The solution would be the same now as it was then. Expel them by force.

 

Otherwise I have no idea what you're asking me.

Sadly i was hoping you would try to answer what would happen in the 1812 Canada matter a bit more specifically on the today used politics and diplomatics in our time because lot has changed in the mean while you left out. Now my question goes back to the Peace Treaty of Versailles and how would your country react to similar teams in exactly the same all in all circumstances? In my opinion the American public would react not exactly the same but similar.

Edited January 19, 2012 by SilverDNA

[Arthmoor]

Sorry but one of them seams to be broken because you are viewing it only from one eye on one side and if you would give me at least 24 h time for a translation of laws that aren't translated into English and a bit of telling you how they are used, I could scare you.. but I will only do it if you want it. Horror is best when the audience is prepared and I'm not Hitchcock, so please don't expect me to be a grand master in it.

I have no idea how else you expect me to view it. The American Revolution happened. It was fought with swords, guns, cannons, and ships. It was bloody and violent. I fail to see how that is changed if you're viewing it from a European perspective. It still happened, it was still violent, it was still freedom won at the point of a gun.

 

Well wait till you get thought crimes and new speech when though and opinions are regulated well the path has been already cleared for such if you only look at SOPA / PIPA you don' get the whole picture if you look broader at the laws that are heavily debated in your country from the last, lets say 12 years then you might gain a picture that uses structures that can be again in relevance to the methods used in my country prior to your victory only make me nervous (and that's honestly put an euphemism, because i fear history repeating it self .. ) now please don't judge me too hard, I'm against Internet piracy, but I'm certainly against governmental abuses of laws and there my primary doubt goes in direct relevance to the patriot act and how it is handled by the U.S: Government if both only by accusation

Perhaps you might tell us which country you're in then. From the sound of it, SOPA/PIPA are the least of your worries if what you're describing is the norm there. I can assure you that what you're describing is not happening here, and attempts to impose it would likely result in another Revolution.

 

Sadly i was hoping you would try to answer what would happen in the 1812 Canada matter a bit more specifically on the today used politics and diplomatics in our time because lot has changed in the mean while you left out.

What's to leave out? We got stupid, attacked Canada, and they (the British) fought back. We still won in the end though because their attempt at re-occupying North America was repulsed and it led to Canada's own independence afterward. If that's not what you're asking about I still don't know what you are asking.

 

Now my question goes back to the Peace Treaty of Versailles and how would your country react to similar teams in exactly the same all in all circumstances? In my opinion the American public would react not exactly the same but similar.

Probably true. I doubt we would have put up with it for long either. The thing is, the Germans brought it down on their own heads by getting stupid and waging a continental war against the rest of Europe. Which they foolishly repeated in 1939. I don't think 21st century diplomacy could solve that kind of situation. Sometimes you actually do need to pick up a gun and defend your rights.

[dazzerfong]

@ Arthmoor:

 

I guess you forgot that the Civil Wars were not fought with tanks, nor aircraft. Civilians don't have tanks. That's the difference. Back then, what you had was what the government had. So no, it wouldn't be terribly effective these days.