Stop Internet Censorship!

[Balagor]

>snip<

Since I have not much faith in American citizens common-sense watching over my cultural background and interests, as well as seeing how opinions of my country that aren't in agreement as well as seeing the possibility of abusing this as tool of very sophisticated very advanced modern warfare, that shouldn't be in the hand of any government. I there fore rather take the red pill and take my chances with an international expert committee that oversees any abuse of such laws than taking the blue pill and let American government decide what I shall think or have the right to know, on their cultural view alone in my country.

 

Take neither of the pills, Silver. It´s never gonna be implemented in the EU. The US will lock them self up as China, our open world as it is now, will become a sealed place like in the -50´ again. Everybody will watch over everybody, and everybody will acuse everybody.

[ginnyfizz]

Let's be clear on something here. International law recognizes the right of any country to pursue legal action against a foreign citizen if that foreign citizen is inducing citizens of the domestic country to break their laws, or that foreign citizen is actively planning to cause harm, or does in fact cause harm, to domestic citizens. e.g., a Mexican drug lord who never sets foot on US soil can be extradited for murder if he sends some gangsters over the border to kill policemen. e.g., Britain has the right to arrest Irish terrorists who plan attacks on British subjects and yet have never left Ireland. This is no different. If the owners of thepiratebay.org, are actively inducing US citizens to violate criminal copyright laws, then those owners have subjected themselves to US law. US law enforcement could indict millions of US citizens who use thepiratebay.org, or they could go after the owners of thepiratebay.org, or they could go a third option (e.g., ask Swedish authorities to deal with it).

 

What they have the power to do, v. what they should do are two entirely different things.

 

 

 

Oh really? I hadn't noticed the Irish courts, in practice, allowing a lot of extraditions for terrorist crimes, since those brave lads and lasses are not common murderers but have committed political crimes. So that's OK then. (That's another bit of British sarcasm.) You don't help your case by comparing thepiratebay.org with the people who murdered hundreds, including a cousin of mine, or with Mexican drug barons. This law is an over the top, sledgehammer to crack a nut approach that, as I said, is going to play right into the hands of the USA hating Sarkozy's of this world (yes President Obama, he really is no friend of yours...)

 

For once I agree with SilverDNA to a large extent. To give one topical to this site example of the cultural differences, look at the issue of nudity in video games - in Europe we are relaxed about it, in the USA much more puritanical, ie boobs are the devil but you can blow off as many heads as you like. If this bill were to be allowed I predict it wouldn't be long before it got amended to allow censorship of US derived assets on moral grounds. This bill is also dangerous because it risks frankly pissing off other countries who will see US bullying afoot, and may damage co-operation on really serious matters like drugs, terrorism, organised crime, and the sort of cyber crime that can put lives at risk, such as hacking defence systems.

[Balagor]

>snip<

look at the issue of nudity in video games - in Europe we are relaxed about it, in the USA much more puritanical, ie boobs are the devil but you can blow off as many heads as you like.

>snip<

 

Has allready happend @Fizz. Remember Apple? Won´t allow any "filthy" apps. on their pods´n pads. Only pussycats and little Disney thingies :woot:

[grannywils]

*snip*

In clicking on this spoiler you are responsible for your own curiosity and can't hold Robyn Scott responsible for any unwanted effect or me!

Spoiler

 

Censorship should always be monitored and measured by citizens with good, pronounced common-sense, else it becomes either a tool of oppression and wrong opinion-formation or in the other extreme worthless.

That's why censorship regardless, how it is ruled out is always a double edged blade in my opinion.

In this particular case it is in my little opinion to understand that here fore that under such laws in comparison with the already installed Patriot Act and similar related measures under the deceit of protecting a country's citizens from harm, there is a dangerous development going on in the US.

Do you even know what the Patriot Act actually does?

*snip*

 

Yes I know! And I know how it can be abused as well, because I see the danger of duality in history repeating itself in a most ugly and advanced way here.

In clicking on this spoiler you are responsible for your own curiosity and can't hold Robyn Scott responsible for any unwanted effect or me! This time you might take a lot of your time in viewing this... a rogue who evil thinks on this ...

:whistling:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f0sBA61L0Y&feature=related

 

 

 

Since I have not much faith in American citizens common-sense watching over my cultural background and interests, as well as seeing how opinions of my country that aren't in agreement as well as seeing the possibility of abusing this as tool of very sophisticated very advanced modern warfare, that shouldn't be in the hand of any government. I there fore rather take the red pill and take my chances with an international expert committee that oversees any abuse of such laws than taking the blue pill and let American government decide what I shall think or have the right to know, on their cultural view alone in my country.

 

 

 

I have not read every post in this thread, but I have read the book and seen the film to which SilverDNA refers in this post. I truly recommend that everyone who believes in freedom and democracy should do the same. That is all that I wish to say at this particular moment. Oh, and by the way Lukertin, Silver does know what the Patriot Act does, and quite a bit more. There is no need to speak in such a patronizing tone to fellow posters.

 

[Deleted1744345User]

I cannot possibly fathom how anyone could argue in favor this bill. Sure, stopping piracy would be nice, but the loose terminology in this bill makes way for the entertainment industry to have any site to be taken down as they see fit. Personally, I'd rather have the pirates destroy the corporations who advocate this bill than lose access to much of the internet and being imprisoned for 5 years just posting a song I sang on Youtube (only an example).

 

The corporations don't care about you; they only care about how fat their wallet is. If this bill gets passed, just hit them where it hurts. Boycott them.

[grannywils]

Hmmm. Probably should be reading this thread....:ohmy:

 

PS. have done some reading now. Yup looks like corporations are gearing up to take over the internet along with the rest of our lives. Am afraid they will end up shutting down the internet entirely if they try this one..... Just my opinion, of course. Read the book recommended in Silver DNA's post. This is a much larger issue we are facing.

[raatorotta]

How one country can control the internet that is worldwide? Impossible! Not gonna happen.

There is no worldwide law, every country have their own.

Edited November 24, 2011 by raatorotta

[SilverDNA]

The best of all for me in this is that we are all get 2nd class citizenship in the USA and don't have a word in the US politics to say ... Does the word "Oligarchy" in your mind ring a bell ?

This is a sure way to get all citizens that get the 2nd class citizen ship really mad at the US.

Reminds me a bit of Steve Jackson's Muchkin game and the phase in the game "looking for trouble" in it and what can happen then if the worst combination of cards is in the hands of the other players ....

:facepalm::wallbash:

Edited November 26, 2011 by SilverDNA

[lukertin]

Oh really? I hadn't noticed the Irish courts, in practice, allowing a lot of extraditions for terrorist crimes, since those brave lads and lasses are not common murderers but have committed political crimes. So that's OK then. (That's another bit of British sarcasm.) You don't help your case by comparing thepiratebay.org with the people who murdered hundreds, including a cousin of mine, or with Mexican drug barons. This law is an over the top, sledgehammer to crack a nut approach that, as I said, is going to play right into the hands of the USA hating Sarkozy's of this world (yes President Obama, he really is no friend of yours...)

I don't need to help my case when precepts of International law are on my side.

 

For once I agree with SilverDNA to a large extent. To give one topical to this site example of the cultural differences, look at the issue of nudity in video games - in Europe we are relaxed about it, in the USA much more puritanical, ie boobs are the devil but you can blow off as many heads as you like.

The thing is, in the US, there are no laws regulating content in video games. In the EU? LOLOLOLOL Your argument rings completely hollow.

 

If this bill were to be allowed I predict it wouldn't be long before it got amended to allow censorship of US derived assets on moral grounds.

Yea, Congress is just going to sit up one day and decide to pass legislation that is clearly contrary to 150 years of First Amendment precedent. That'll really work. :hurr:

 

This bill is also dangerous because it risks frankly pissing off other countries who will see US bullying afoot, and may damage co-operation on really serious matters like drugs, terrorism, organised crime, and the sort of cyber crime that can put lives at risk, such as hacking defence systems.

Only if the Attorney General takes unilateral action. I don't see that happening, ever.

[Sepherose]

I seem to be a little late to the party here but I found this today: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/11/us-judge-orders-hundreds-of-sites-de-indexed-from-google-twitter-bing-facebook.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss

 

That is distressing. I do believe SOPA is already in effect without it even being passed. :wallbash: