Did you kill Paarthurnax?

[WorldShaperDragon]

Nope; fitting my own morality (and my empathy for what Paarthurnax has to go through, what with having to combat in inherent instinctual desire for quick & dirty world domination, though I'm betting said world would be far from a utopia, given what Alduin presided over long ago.)

 

I so wish there was a way to tell the blades:

 

"Fine, you want to not help me, so be it. Have fun with the rest of your lives - which will likely be no more than a couple weeks - should I fail."

 

That should put them back in their place. They are hardly the ones in a bargaining position.

 

Delphine seemed to be fine at first, but after a while looked like she was sliding off a slippery cliff into the "Knights Templar" territory (though hardly as bad as the Vigilants of Stendar (for crying out loud, imo, some of the daedric princes score higher on the karma-meter than they do), or worse still, the Silver Hand (though they are so far gone that they fall squarely into the "He who fights monsters" territory)). Esbern at least seemed sane about it all (a bit ironic given how he is introduced), but I still felt his ethics were misguided. And it also just reeked of "he has outlived his usefulness". I mean, really?

[justwannaddl]

I have to say, I am tempted to since the moment the option was introduced, I knew he was already as good as dead, storywise.

[Sarathoria]

I don't recall having to kill him, story wise. I blasted through the main story line using the console (And before anyone says anything, my first character was intended for legit play, but he got bugged out, and I couldn't find any console commands to fix it, so I said screw it, and made a new character, super powered her, so I can see the ending of the game.)

 

Anyway, IIRC, after you kill Aulduin, and you're taken back to the throat of the world, there's quite a few dragons flying around, then Parthanex talks to you, and then flies off. I haven't went back to see if he's still there, but I'm pretty sure you can play through the whole game without killing him, unless there's quests to restore the blades or something, and you're wanting to do that.

 

With that game, I didn't kill him, nor will I. But with my next character, I think I will.

 

On another note, I don't have a problem with Delphine, and didn't even know she invited herself, until I read the posts above. The person who I didn't want there, who I decided to let stay, was the Thalmor woman, which I'm surprised she didn't do anything to me after I murdered her men.

[Reddimus]

You're never forced to. It's just if you visit Delphine and Esbern after, they urge you extremely strongly to kill him. I think Delphine almost gets to the point of saying "F U if you don't."

[WrathOfDeadguy]

Paarthurnax stayed alive for a number of reasons:

 

1. The Blades did not provide sufficient justification for wanting him dead. Whatever evil he did in the far distant past, I think, has been more than compensated for by thousands of years of self-imposed isolation and aiding mortals at every opportunity. All of their arguments ring hollow; they admit they would not consider any alternatives and state that they would want him dead even if he had done nothing wrong because hunting dragons is the Blades' sworn duty. What they want is the extermination of an entire species, and I am of the belief that such radical measures are a last resort of the "break glass in case of imminent destruction of world" variety. That particular threat ended with Alduin's defeat- hence I cannot condone and will not help the Blades commit xenocide.

 

2. He's an invaluable resource, both in defeating Alduin and in facing any future threats to Skyrim and the rest of Tamriel. The guy's got more years and knowledge than any two other critters alive in the world- and he's got the will to use it for constructive ends. Alduin would never have been overthrown without Paarthurnax. Alduin would never have been finally and totally defeated without Paarthurnax; it was his timeless knowledge that allowed the Dovahkiin to discover and eventually learn the dragonrend shout. He also knows more about history than anyone else alive by virtue of having been alive through all of it. He can provide scholars with accurate information about times and places that there are no surviving records of.

 

3. By the end of the game, there are quite a few dragons up and flying around, and they remain a threat despite their little "we respect you" assembly on the mountaintop. Paarthurnax is the only voice of reason that any of them are likely to listen to; he may be able to calm at least some of the other dragons and get them to stop preying on mortals- as he did once before, a long time ago. The dragons may respect the Dovahkiin's power- but the Dovahkiin is mortal and the dragons are not. They need a positive influence that shares their potential for immortality and exists on their level.

 

4. Killing Paarthurnax sends a message to the rest of the dragons that they may expect peace to be rewarded with death. No dragon has done more for mortals than Paarthurnax; if he is not safe then all dragons must consider mortals to be their enemies. Sparing him provides a clear example that coexistence is not impossible in the long term.

 

5. On the whole, Paarthurnax and the Greybeards present as being rational and circumspect almost to a fault. Paarthurnax founded the Greybeards- their philosophy of fearing and respecting power derives from him. That more than anything else demonstrates that he has no ambition for world domination; for countless generations he has dedicated himself to the pursuit of wisdom and balance. He offers no excuse for his earlier crimes and shows remorse, even shame, for what he and his kind once did. He did not seize the reins of power when Alduin was defeated the first time, nor did he do so the second time. He claims that he fights a constant battle against his own natural urges- he doesn't want to rule the world, or even a tiny part of it. He even keeps the Greybeards at a distance- they clearly would worship him if he allowed it, and I think that is the very reason why he maintains that distance. Those who seek to avoid power tend to be the ones who use power most responsibly- hence I believe Paarthurnax can be trusted.

 

6. It strikes me as unlikely that Tiber Septim, who studied with the Greybeards, was not aware of who and what Paarthurnax was. He concealed that knowledge from the Blades. Now, I don't know what the man's personality was like, but now we're talking divine favor here. Paarthurnax was directly involved in the education of a god. Presumably, even if Talos had not known about Paarthurnax's past before ascending to godhood, he would have gained full knowledge of it after. If one of the Nine (screw you, Thalmor) thought it best to leave Paarthurnax be, what could a pair of over-the-hill spies who have no actual experience in their order's original purpose know about whether or not he deserves to live? Surely if Talos wished the Blades to end Paarthurnax's life, he could have delivered a vision to any of the priests of the Order of Talos over the many long years and thus informed the Blades of his location? They are devout followers of Talos; this is made very clear in Oblivion and it is given as one of the reasons why the Thalmor are so dedicated to purging their order. Nirn is a world where gods are real and have real power over their worshipers. The one god who had to have had intimate knowledge about one of the last surviving dragons chose not to reveal that information to his own followers, whom he knew would be duty-bound to slay that dragon.

 

QED. Paarthurnax will always remain alive in my games.

[justwannaddl]

I was actually speaking in terms of future TES games when I mentioned that he will be as good as dead. He reminded me too much of Vivec. Immensely powerful and influential but never heard of again in future games because the player has the option to kill him in Morrowind.

[Ayceman]

Vivec isn't heard from again, not because he's killed by the player. The official storyline goes along the normal path for finishing Morrowind.

 

As for Paarthurnax, Wrath_Of_Deadguy01 sums it up nicely. Those two Blades can be as angry as they want, it's not like I need them. Anyway, the loyalty of the Blades recruits lies with me, so if I want one of them to follow me they still will. Asking Esbern for help is OP anyway because he sends all 3 recruits (and all are tagged as essential). The one time I did that, they killed the dragon before I had a chance to land a single blow (I rushed for the dragon wall to learn the throw voice shout and run from the lich guarding it).

 

EDIT: I didn't know that Delphine was so annoying at the peace negotiations, as I had already finished the Imperial storyline by that point, so I skipped the mission. There's another good reason to not kill him.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Ayceman

[tyson277]

dont worry you cant kill him ive tried his health goes down to 0 then he regenerates to full health in a continuous loop

[Gugus0]

dont worry you cant kill him ive tried his health goes down to 0 then he regenerates to full health in a continuous loop

 

I killed him, now he is as good as dead on his crap mountain..

 

:))))

 

 

But maybe in another save I will be good ^^

[WorldShaperDragon]

He becomes essential after finishing the main quest; if you are trying to kill him, he must be killed before finishing the main quest. The fact you can get the quest assigned after the main quest concludes is a glitch. It should fail as soon as the main quest completes, and not be assigned afterwards. Easy to mod in though.