Did you kill Paarthurnax?

[JimS61]

To those trying to compare mercy to Paarthurnax to the Nazis war criminals, it doesn't hold up.

 

Let's remember that Paarth realized his wrongs, switched sides and began helping mankind long before the Dragon War was over. In the thousand or so years since then he not only has done NOTHING to harm any one. but was not even seen or heard from for all of that time.

If he WAS still evil, dangerous and blood thirsty he could have/would have conducted his own war of death, destruction and terror against humanity, but he didn't. He controled his "inner beast" so well that for over thousands of years no one even knew he was still alive except for the Greybeards.

 

The ancient Warriors who actually fought the dragons didn't demand his death, the ancient blades didn't demand his death and the ancient people didn't demand his death. If they did Paarth would have been killed because he couldn't possibly stand against the entire world by himself.

But now we have just 2 genocidal Blades who've never even seen a dragon and that want to be ruled by ancient legends from 1,000 years ago instead of recent recorded history and modern day facts. that have decided to turn it from a victroy in war into total genocide.

 

As far as the Nazi War Criminals of WW2, those who realized their wrong doings and switched sides to the Allies and then helped the Allies were shown mercy because their own realization and concious brought the around but those who waited til the end were shown no mercy because their only reason for being remorseful was the fact that it was over and it was now time to "pay the piper".

 

It's extremely easy to be remorseful and to want to make ammends when you're sitting in a prison cell waiting trial and/or execution for the mass murder of hundreds or mllions.

Those who continued to order and those who obeyed those orders up til the end, from the highest rank to the lowest rank were shown no mercy.

 

There's a very big differnce between actually being a new, remorseful person who wants to make ammends and just trying to pretend so just to save your own neck.

Plus the evidence against Paarth is just ancient legend while we have/had very recent written documented evidence about WW2.

 

Killing Paarthurnax would simply be taking out revenge on him for the crimes all other dragons commited and Paarth has/had no control over the actions of the other dragons.

 

Paarthurnax MUST NOT DIE!! :no:

[Joukei]

To those trying to compare mercy to Paarthurnax to the Nazis war criminals, it doesn't hold up.

 

You've completely missed the point. Please take the time to re read the initial discussion.

[hellplayer1]

Guys plz help me with this how can i kill delphine, i cant i use everything shouts, magic most powerful swords everything but she wont die, i know that she is a npc and you cant kill her but this is related to the quest, is it a bug or something else.(i dont want to restart my carrer)

 

SOMEONE

Edited June 29, 2012 by hellplayer1

[Freyrgjurd]

Guys plz help me with this how can i kill delphine, i cant i use everything shouts, magic most powerful swords everything but she wont die, i know that she is a npc and you cant kill her but this is related to the quest, is it a bug or something else.(i dont want to restart my carrer)

 

SOMEONE

 

She is marked as essential, thus non killable. Throw her of a cliff or search in the wiki about removing those kind of tags.

 

@topic

 

I don't think Paarthunax deserves to die, since he is already paying for it. Not being able to talk with others, like he likes... living secluded at the top of a mountain.

He is "incarcerated" and with "no real friends", while trying to control himself. He's already suffering. Killing him is to relief his pain. hehe

 

I think his help is crucial to save the nords, so he buys his life with me. If the nords want to try and kill him, go for it... but sure I'll miss his sweet talk <3

[hellplayer1]

Guys plz help me with this how can i kill delphine, i cant i use everything shouts, magic most powerful swords everything but she wont die, i know that she is a npc and you cant kill her but this is related to the quest, is it a bug or something else.(i dont want to restart my carrer)

 

SOMEONE

 

She is marked as essential, thus non killable. Throw her of a cliff or search in the wiki about removing those kind of tags.

 

@topic

 

I don't think Paarthunax deserves to die, since he is already paying for it. Not being able to talk with others, like he likes... living secluded at the top of a mountain.

He is "incarcerated" and with "no real friends", while trying to control himself. He's already suffering. Killing him is to relief his pain. hehe

 

I think his help is crucial to save the nords, so he buys his life with me. If the nords want to try and kill him, go for it... but sure I'll miss his sweet talk <3

Thank you i appreciate it. :biggrin:

[g4nJified2O]

[*][FACT] You can get the Dragonbane without killing Paarthurnax, just walk into the room and pick it up. Along with a full Blades set.

[*][iMO] I don't need a buff to slay Dragons easier.. I can almost 1-hit them already and with Dragonrend, things could not be easier.

[*][iMO] It's better to be able to meditate any word you want, anytime you want. And more RP as well. I don't find it a useful argument though, the meditating words are not crucial parts of the game.

[*][FACT] It's not a bad sword but I find your argument about it being the most stylish, invalid. Yes it looks nice but have you got your hands on the Ebony Blade yet? Much much better looking than Blades Sword.

[*][iMO] I just leave my housecarls at my houses. It's nice to walk in and not stumble into an empty-miserable place. My housecarl walking around while I do my stuff gives me a warm feeling. :)

 

Although, I admit I'd like to see the Blades growing in numbers (if that's really the case after killing Paarthurnax), I still am not a traitor, it's not the kind of character I've built up all the way to 80 levels.

 

And even though I like Esbern, I couldn't care less what his actor's origin is, or if he lived next to me, when I play the game I'm the Dragonborn and he's Esbern, we're both from somewhere in Tamriel or whatever.

 

Kudos to you my friend! Ha that part about how YOUR the Dragonborn and he's Esbern, both from somewhere in Tamriel game me a chuckle. It reminds me of how absorbed into Skyrim I get every time I play the game, paying attention to every detail in every quest I come accross. Hell, I don't even like fast traveling! I walk everywhere I go and enjoy every step of the way! :)

[sinnerman69]

I didn't like making Arngeir mad after I killed Paarthurnax, I wanna use the option that you can get Arngeir to confront delphine and he puts her in her place that you've all discussed here in this thread earlier on and then I'll re-install the mod The Paarthurnax Fix again

[SFBryan18]

These debates about NPC's are really pointless. I use a mod to allow him to live. In fact, before I got the mod, I considered murdering the Blades because they were so annoying. Seriously, who do they think they are to give me such an order. I still feel like killing them.

 

Sure I consider that dragon a friend... but even if I didn't, I chose who I want to kill. Refusing to help me was an insult to the Dovahkiin, and both Delphine and that old idiot Esbern were annoying as hell. First, that bliznitch steals my quest item, forcing me to meet her. Then I have to track down some idiot who keeps shooting me in the back with exploding fireballs on the road anytime an enemy is around. And why exactly were they allowed to attend my treaty? They're a couple of bums off the street but they manage to get into a royal treaty negotiation. And then they tell me to kill a friend of mine and threaten me that they won't give me anymore assistance. They're lucky I like to keep Skyrim populated, or they'd be dead.

[imperistan]

Fascinating that this debate rages when the only clear resolution was realizing that the Blades (and hell, the Greybeards/Paarthurnax) were just badly written. They wasted the potential of Esbern (he was supposed to be your character's mentor, but in the game he may as well just be a figment of Delphines imagination for all his worth) and you could tell whoever wrote Delphine struggled to write her lines. The Greybeards barely have any writing to them at all and Paarthurnax's entire point as a character is to just shuffle you into the next set piece. Beyond that, he may as well be a figment of Arngeir's imagination for all his real worth.

 

As for what writing these characters do have, lets remember that the Blade's sole purpose now that they've been relieved of their duties to the Emperor is to either slay dragons under the Dragonborn's protection or resign themselves to live in the shadows until the Thalmor no longer chase them. That the Blades want Paarthurnax dead isn't surprising, he was one of their original targets back before Alduin's return and honestly, it isn't wrong to resign to having no dragon's rather than trusting that a creature whose want to dominate and enslave is instinctual won't fall back to his lesser nature. Paarthurnax might be holding his instincts back, and may have been holding them back for quite a long time by now, but the fact that he is still fighting them just has hard as he was the first day he fought them shows us that he is nothing more than a time bomb attached to a shovel. Useful sure, but as soon as that bomb goes off you'll will have wished you just used your hands to dig your holes.

 

So again, that you can't order the Blades to leave Paarthurnax alone or work out an agreement between the two isn't because the Blades are actually assholes who won't even hear of a negotiation. Its because this particular segment of the game is not only devastatingly written but also severely underdeveloped. The entire point of the Blades faction in the game is to shuffle you in front of Alduin's Wall. Thats it. They serve absolutely zero practical value in the game beyond that.

[Cipherthe3vil]

These debates about NPC's are really pointless. I use a mod to allow him to live. In fact, before I got the mod, I considered murdering the Blades because they were so annoying. Seriously, who do they think they are to give me such an order. I still feel like killing them.

 

Sure I consider that dragon a friend... but even if I didn't, I chose who I want to kill. Refusing to help me was an insult to the Dovahkiin, and both Delphine and that old idiot Esbern were annoying as hell. First, that bliznitch steals my quest item, forcing me to meet her. Then I have to track down some idiot who keeps shooting me in the back with exploding fireballs on the road anytime an enemy is around. And why exactly were they allowed to attend my treaty? They're a couple of bums off the street but they manage to get into a royal treaty negotiation. And then they tell me to kill a friend of mine and threaten me that they won't give me anymore assistance. They're lucky I like to keep Skyrim populated, or they'd be dead.

 

This sums up my own disdain for the Blades.

 

I love Paarthurnax . He's one of the best NPCs in the game. Karliah being another one of them, and I'm sure there are one or two more somewhere. Cicero might have made it as well, if his voice wasn't so damn irritating.

Ooooh. Do you know what there needs? A Mod to make Cicero into Cicellia or something, a female NPC that is fully re-voiced as to not be annoying anymore.

Oh. Paarthurnax . I loved Paarthurnax and I swear I keep his words with me all the time to remind me that I can always strive to be better, even when I think I'm awful for things I sometimes do and would rather bury my head into the sand or give in and just remain bad. But Paarthurnax's words (Though I'm not some total skyrim freak and there are plenty of other reasons XD) help to keep me from giving up, because "What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?"

 

What did the Blades do? They tried to order me around, disrespect me after saying they were supposed to serve me, and Delphine tried to assert dominance over me when we first met like I was some child whining about not getting a cookie to a very strict and unreasonable mother.

I would never betray Paarthurnax for that /w/itch.