Beth messed up our elves!

[InAComaDial999]

The elves look exactly like I wanted them to -- they look like elves did in Morrowind. For me, the elves in Oblivion mostly looked silly, with soft, bloated features, short foreheads, and blunt jaws. That's not what elves in TES ever looked like before, and I'm glad Skyrim returned them to the way they are supposed to look.

 

It isn't impossible to make elves in Skyrim that are pretty in a human-like way, but that's not how most of them are and that's not how most of them were in previous TES games either.

 

This page shows the evolution of the various races throughout the Elder Scrolls series. I think it's pretty instructive.

[Lachdonin]

... Working as intended. To go back to my real-life race example -- you can change the hair all you want, you can throw makeup on them, you can do whatever, but nothing's going to stop a white guy from having white guy facial features, nothing's going to stop an asian girl from looking asian, etc., NOT WITHOUT ARTIFICIALLY MODIFYING THEM (mods).

 

Technicly not true... as albino's of many ethic groups actually look like 'white people' at a glance... Still, the general idea stands. Certian populations have certian features that you can't change. You'd be hard pressed to find a Kenyian with a narrow nose, for instance.

 

I would like to point out, however, that while in TES there are indeed distinct races with very obvious differances, both in features and core traits, those don't actually exist in the real world human population. 90% of variation happens between individuals, and when you look at statistical averages for genetic varriation, compairing between populations, theres almost no differance. As such 'Race' doesn't exist as a litteral, biologic thing amongst humans.

[saintjimmyz]

So, from what I understand, people are not upset that the elves look different from humans, but because they can't adjust them enough to satisfy their own personal aesthetic tastes?

 

... Working as intended. To go back to my real-life race example -- you can change the hair all you want, you can throw makeup on them, you can do whatever, but nothing's going to stop a white guy from having white guy facial features, nothing's going to stop an asian girl from looking asian, etc., NOT WITHOUT ARTIFICIALLY MODIFYING THEM (mods).

 

Can't get the elves to fit within your realm of looking good? Then you might as well ask for Bethesda to have an option to remove fur from Khajiit, or scales from Argonians. The inhuman eyes and the face shapes, I can not emphasize enough, ARE NOT AND NEVER WILL LOOK HUMAN (with the exception of abortive travesties like Oblivion's models or mods) BECAUSE THEY ARE DEFINING FEATURES OF THE INHUMAN RACES OF "MER", and I wouldn't have it any other way. Does this mean you can't get it to fit within your ideal of beauty? Then I guess tough s***. Saying Bethesda should change the race to, I don't even know what... have smaller/more 'human' eyes, reduce the brow ridge, etc.? Or having sliders to that effect? That's bulls***. If those stand between you making an attractive character, good on them, I say. That just means that they did a bang-up job of making a race that, for SOME PEOPLE, will never look 'human enough' -- and, as I said all those posts ago, this is exactly the point. You are 'racist' insofar as you don't like the made-up race of the Mer. Before you start with the "HURR PERSONAL ATTACK XENOPHOBE DURR", I'm racist too because I don't like the looks of Klingons on Star Trek. There's nothing wrong with disliking the looks of a fantasy race and, indeed, that means the creators made it exactly the way it should be.

 

Exactly. Im glad Im not the only one who disagrees with the logic-defying complaints made by the OP and other posters here.

[antonkr]

So, from what I understand, people are not upset that the elves look different from humans, but because they can't adjust them enough to satisfy their own personal aesthetic tastes?

 

... Working as intended. To go back to my real-life race example -- you can change the hair all you want, you can throw makeup on them, you can do whatever, but nothing's going to stop a white guy from having white guy facial features, nothing's going to stop an asian girl from looking asian, etc., NOT WITHOUT ARTIFICIALLY MODIFYING THEM (mods).

 

Can't get the elves to fit within your realm of looking good? Then you might as well ask for Bethesda to have an option to remove fur from Khajiit, or scales from Argonians. The inhuman eyes and the face shapes, I can not emphasize enough, ARE NOT AND NEVER WILL LOOK HUMAN (with the exception of abortive travesties like Oblivion's models or mods) BECAUSE THEY ARE DEFINING FEATURES OF THE INHUMAN RACES OF "MER", and I wouldn't have it any other way. Does this mean you can't get it to fit within your ideal of beauty? Then I guess tough s***. Saying Bethesda should change the race to, I don't even know what... have smaller/more 'human' eyes, reduce the brow ridge, etc.? Or having sliders to that effect? That's bulls***. If those stand between you making an attractive character, good on them, I say. That just means that they did a bang-up job of making a race that, for SOME PEOPLE, will never look 'human enough' -- and, as I said all those posts ago, this is exactly the point. You are 'racist' insofar as you don't like the made-up race of the Mer. Before you start with the "HURR PERSONAL ATTACK XENOPHOBE DURR", I'm racist too because I don't like the looks of Klingons on Star Trek. There's nothing wrong with disliking the looks of a fantasy race and, indeed, that means the creators made it exactly the way it should be.

congratulations on your first kudo. You made me regain hope in humanity.

[ginnyfizz]

We are talking about logic...in a fantasy game? :facepalm:

 

@angrytigerp;-

Yes, do stop using the term racist. It is a serious accusation that you can't substantiate, which by definition constitutes defamation.

 

If you are trying to be logical, you should at least try and get it right. Firstly,it is not possible to be racist towards a race that doesn't exist, which is why your using the term is more an attempt at a personal slur than any kind of argument. Secondly, in the same post you say this;-

 

"So, from what I understand, people are not upset that the elves look different from humans, but because they can't adjust them enough to satisfy their own personal aesthetic tastes?" which

is actually fair enough, but then contradict yourself with this;-

 

"Saying Bethesda should change the race to, I don't even know what... have smaller/more 'human' eyes, reduce the brow ridge, etc.? Or having sliders to that effect? That's bulls***. If those stand between you making an attractive character, good on them, I say. That just means that they did a bang-up job of making a race that, for SOME PEOPLE, will never look 'human enough' -- and, as I said all those posts ago, this is exactly the point. "

 

By your own admission, we have not said that we want the elves to look totally human, in fact, if you actually take the trouble to read my posts you will note that I have said the eyes are specifically one thing I didn't change apart from a higher res texture, thus the Dark Elves have the red eyes that they should have, my Wood Elf now doesn't have the human type eyes in the earlier screenshot, they're now a dark all-over colour, because human didn't look right. And no we didn't say Bethesda should change the race, we are saying we would have liked the facial sliders that we had in Oblivion in order to change them ourselves.

 

What your real life race example has to do with this I don't know. I was always taught and truly believe that making other races conform to the ideal of another race was wrong, and appreciate other ethnicities precisely for their diversity, whether concerning their looks, culture or whatever.

 

There is nothing wrong, racist, or *sigh* logic defying about people wanting their own game the way they like it. At least there's one thing, when the CK comes out you can seethe all you like, but the beauty mods and the skimpy armors will come, and you will have to do your seething outside of the mod comments.

[myrmaad]

Elves/Mer are not humans..... Elves/Mer are not humans.... What you consider the differences between male and female from a anthropocentric view does not mean that other ethnicities/races have to fit those types of physical characteristics..... Seems to me probably stems from an underlying xenophobia.... These different races you can choose are entirely separate and should not be the silly puddy mess that was the oblivion character creation where everyone looked the same with different color skin.

 

Trolling again. You are accusing me or what amounts to racism and I am not going to stand for that. I live in a multi ethnic community and find that in each ethnic group, the males and females look distinctly different. It's as simple as that. It beggars belief that you and likeitsillegal are now playing the race card just for me pointing out the fact that males and females, and I am talking about HUMANOID races, after all the elves are humanoid though not HUMAN, look different. Really, that is utterly ridiculous and nothing more than an attempt at troublemaking. It's also defamation.

 

Technically, it is racism. You don't like the aesthetics of the RACES of Dunmer, Bosmer, and Altmer. May be fictional races, but still. You find the defining qualities of their races aesthetically displeasing, and that's fine. I love how utterly defensive you get, though, with the "I HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE [race]" card... no one accused you of hating [race] people, just of hating Mer. That just means Bethesda did their job right in creating races that are different enough to elicit so severe a response from some. Calm down, whitewash (or humanwash, as it were) the elves when the mod tools come out, but quit with this "Bethesda messed up" bulls***. Because, as has been said numerous times by numerous people, Mer -- while humanoid -- ARE. NOT. HUMAN.

 

No, technically this is about aesthetics, and personal idealizations of how races should look. Technically, that is one stupid argument, and is pure, unadulterated drivel. You crossed the line into ad homonym (personal attack), as well, which is what people do when they don't know how to articulate an argument and start grasping at straws.

 

Bethesda is continuing their practice of one head mesh, and they decided to differentiate the races using photoshop magic. They messed up the human races as well, that's why those also came, out of the box, with blocky noses and chins.

 

I, personally, would prefer more morrowind style dunmer with piercings, but bump mapping is a cheap way to go if you don't want to add separate head meshes for man and mer. It doesn't bother me at all because I already fixed it by throwing out the mer maps altogether. Soon enough it will be addressed by this modding community I love and rely on to take what Bethesda gave us and add the awesome sauce.

[Thoreai]

Meh this thread became a word catching game...someone says something, then it gets twisted, used against him/her and then the whole cycle repeats...sadly the whole point of this gets drowned in opinions pushed upon others.

 

I wanted more costumization and i dont care if people go stand on their heads with their excuses of pretty elfs, this isnt humans and whatever crap, isnt going to change my opinion on that period. :dry:

Edited November 26, 2011 by pavy

[JimboUK]

Meh this thread became a word catching game...someone says something, then it gets twisted, used against him/her and then the whole cycle repeats...sadly the whole point of this gets drowned in opinions pushed upon others.

 

I wanted more costumization and i dont care if people go stand on their heads with their excuses of pretty elfs, this isnt humans and whatever crap, isnt going to change my opinion on that period. :dry:

 

I think more customisation is all people want, arguing over the appearance of a race that doesn't exist is ridiculous, not as ridiculous as claims of racism but ridiculous none the less.

[Thoreai]

Meh this thread became a word catching game...someone says something, then it gets twisted, used against him/her and then the whole cycle repeats...sadly the whole point of this gets drowned in opinions pushed upon others.

 

I wanted more costumization and i dont care if people go stand on their heads with their excuses of pretty elfs, this isnt humans and whatever crap, isnt going to change my opinion on that period. :dry:

 

I think more customisation is all people want, arguing over the appearance of a race that doesn't exist is ridiculous, not as ridiculous as claims of racism but ridiculous none the less.

Thats what we are talking about here the whole time....costumization nothing else.

[JimboUK]

Meh this thread became a word catching game...someone says something, then it gets twisted, used against him/her and then the whole cycle repeats...sadly the whole point of this gets drowned in opinions pushed upon others.

 

I wanted more costumization and i dont care if people go stand on their heads with their excuses of pretty elfs, this isnt humans and whatever crap, isnt going to change my opinion on that period. :dry:

 

I think more customisation is all people want, arguing over the appearance of a race that doesn't exist is ridiculous, not as ridiculous as claims of racism but ridiculous none the less.

Thats what we are talking about here the whole time....costumization nothing else.

 

Most are but some are arguing that Oblivions were wrong and Skyrims are right, a silly argument about a fictional race.