Need Help Creating Object Space Normal Maps

[Drachis]

A bit to my dismay, Skyrim appears to use object space normal maps rather than tangent ones for the characters, meaning I can't simply use PhotoShop NVIDIA plug-in or CrazyBump to make my normal maps.

 

Working on my argonian retexture mod, I've been trying some creative work-arounds to solve the issue. At first, I blurred the original character normal map and then put my tangent map on top as a luminosity layer, then I tried to tailor craft the color bumps myself. I've had mixed results with everything, and I've finally decided that I simply need to learn how to generate my own object space normal maps. So, I went looking for tutorials.

 

I started with 3DS Max and Maya, seeing as how they would probably have a plethora of learning aids on YouTube. They do! The problem is that there are dozens of tutorials teaching how to use object space maps, but I can't find a sinlge one specifically explaining where these maps came from or how they were initially created. After 3 days of googling for answers, I'm at a complete loss.

 

 

 

So, here's my question:

How do create my own object space normal maps for Skyrim's characters? Wouldn't Maya or 3DS simply be capable of importing the .nif body mesh, wrapping the body texture around it, and then use the two to create an object space map? I've been working with PhotoShop for a couple years now, but I'm brand new to 3d modeling, so I'm just taking guesses here.

Edited November 22, 2011 by Drachis

[eronel55]

A bit to my dismay, Skyrim appears to use object space normal maps rather than tangent ones for the characters, meaning I can't simply use PhotoShop NVIDIA plug-in or CrazyBump to make my normal maps.

 

Working on my argonian retexture mod, I've been trying some creative work-arounds to solve the issue. At first, I blurred the original character normal map and then put my tangent map on top as a luminosity layer, then I tried to tailor craft the color bumps myself. I've had mixed results with everything, and I've finally decided that I simply need to learn how to generate my own object space normal maps. So, I went looking for tutorials.

 

I started with 3DS Max and Maya, seeing as how they would probably have a plethora of learning aids on YouTube. They do! The problem is that there are dozens of tutorials teaching how to use object space maps, but I can't find a sinlge one specifically explaining where these maps came from or how they were initially created. After 3 days of googling for answers, I'm at a complete loss.

 

 

 

So, here's my question:

How do create my own object space normal maps for Skyrim's characters? Wouldn't Maya or 3DS simply be capable of importing the .nif body mesh, wrapping the body texture around it, and then use the two to create an object space map? I've been working with PhotoShop for a couple years now, but I'm brand new to 3d modeling, so I'm just taking guesses here.

 

 

Drachis ,

 

I too am trying to prepare for the day when all the tools are available and have been trying to find some way to generate Object Space Normal Maps. I am quite the novice. I learned how to create tangent normals using the nvidia tool for photoshop but these new (new to me - obviously object normals are anything but new!) _msn maps had me stumped.

 

Here's what i have been able to learn so far: Object space normals are created using the mesh. It is possible to do this in blender - here's a link:

 

http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-236/normal-maps/

 

obviously you need the mesh to do it. That may be possible now. over on the nif tools forums, Throttlekitty has been working on decoding the new nif and has succeeded in the first stage in this process. it is possible to open the skyrim nifs with nifscope now using the nif.xml file and changing the version number in nifscope. if you can successfully export an .obj from nifscope, then you should be able to import into blender and then use the method above to generate an obj space normal. nere is the link to that forum topic:

 

http://niftools.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3164

 

you will need to read through the posts if you are unfamiliar with how to change the nifscope version number. also this 'might' create issues opening nifs for other games like fallout. im just trying to provide some info here.

 

one other thing i discovered today - again new to me but very old - is a program called melody from nvidia. this program can generate obj space normal maps from .obj and 3ds max files. it looks the most promising to me. i have only downloaded it and opened it -- have a long way to go to learn how to use it. you can get it here:

 

http://www.nvidia.com/object/melody_home.html

 

 

i hope this helps a little bit. this is all a discovering process for me at this point.

 

good luck - and if you are successful in generating a useable obj space normal, please let me know!

 

oh one last --- after decompressing the texture bsa and poking around at the game normal maps -- it appears to me that the only place that obj space normals are being used is on the characters. all inanimate objects that i have seen are still using tangent space normal maps. I am grateful for that since those are much simpler to make.

 

eronel55

[nivea]

I suggested in you last picture thread to try and use Xnormal as I have used it to make new Argonian normals.

[Ghogiel]

I started with 3DS Max and Maya, seeing as how they would probably have a plethora of learning aids on YouTube. They do! The problem is that there are dozens of tutorials teaching how to use object space maps, but I can't find a sinlge one specifically explaining where these maps came from or how they were initially created. After 3 days of googling for answers, I'm at a complete loss.

 

You bake them. the work flow is identical to tangent space normal maps.

 

It's just a tick box in the RTT dialog. Render tangent space or object space.

[givebeesachance]

Is there any way to generate Object Space normals from 2-D images like you can Tangent Space normals with the nVidia plugin for photoshop?

[Ghogiel]

Is there any way to generate Object Space normals from 2-D images like you can Tangent Space normals with the nVidia plugin for photoshop?

not really. You can convert tangent to object... but I think it needs an objects surface to work it out.

[Drachis]

I've been watching tutorials and making progress with 3ds mapping. I've learned how to convert a high poly model to a normal map (which I won't be doing for the project, most likely, for quite some time), and I figured out on my own how to use the material maps to render a normal map and save it as .tga.

 

I still haven't found any way to create an OS map, however. They are all tangent space.

 

It's just a tick box in the RTT dialog. Render tangent space or object space.

I haven't found anything, yet. I found alternative options to tangent, but the other options do not produce an OS map. Edited November 27, 2011 by Drachis

[Ghogiel]

 

It's just a tick box in the RTT dialog. Render tangent space or object space.

I haven't found anything, yet. I found alternative options to tangent, but the other options do not produce an OS map.

In the projections options... see the normal map space... local XYZ.

[MonsterMonkey]

I tried to convert it as tangent space with nvidia plugin in PS but when i tried to edit the mesh to let it use normal maps i had wired results in the CK (Grey Face and strange glossy pixelised texture. Edited September 19, 2012 by MonsterMonkey

[smp132002]

Try using quixel NDO it will allow you to make normal maps in photoshop then convert tangent to object create specular and so on and the older version is free :)