dark666105 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 As far as the magnetism thing, I've seen very blatant displays of it. I am trying to snipe someone who is sitting at a table and I have a clear shot of their head and my arrow goes about a foot to the right to hit the bottle next to them. Nice trick shots but not what I was going for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topeira Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Roleplay. It's just more fun to make headshots. :) It's less fun when their heads appear to be noncorporeal, however... Agreed. I do the same. I love getting a good headshot insta-kill from a couple hundred meters away even if it doesn't matter (only possible to hit that far away with fVisibleNavmeshMoveDist=14000.0000 in the ini otherwise the arrow passes right through the enemy/bear/living thing) To chime in on the thread, I'll post what I said in another place: The arc they put in the game is ON PURPOSE. Not to counteract gravity to make it easier to aim, definitely not to make some kind of auto-aim (though I realize there may be some kind of auto-aim arrow magnetism thing going on when the arrow just would otherwise barely miss). It's because arrows fly in an arc regardless of how straight you aim them. It comes down to technique. Archers "nock" their arrows on the string a little lower than the tip of the arrow being held in place by the hand/grip. Thus the back of the arrow is a little lower than the front. This is to help hit targets in real life. It gives the arrow a natural arc. Also, some arching comes from the way the bow is aimed in relation to the arrow. When one aims, he pulls the arrow back so that his hand's thumb (that is holding the string) meets his lip. He then aims down the shaft, nut not directly (since the back end of the arrow is around his lip, not his eye. Thus, if you're looking down range in a straight line (represented by the crosshair in game) and the back of the arrow is beneath your eye, then the tip of the arrow is pointed up, creating an arc. I've practiced archery with all manner of bows since I was quite young [about 8]. Bonus fact: For a very long time, gun's "iron sights" have been crafted in a way that causes you to aim slightly higher than your target when aiming down sight even when you think you're actually aiming perfectly straight. This is to emulate the same built-in mechanics of a bow arching an arrow. All are created to counter-act gravity. Personally, I leave my arc default. I do not change the ini settings, because I can honestly say as a bit of a real life archer, that Bethesda's arc is pretty natural. As it stands in the game, the default arc is great. Just like in real life, within so many feet, aiming at a bullseye directly WILL cause you to hit slightly higher than the bullseye. Then at longer distances, you must still manually tilt your bow to aim higher. Bethesda got it right on the money. Except with arrow speed. Way too slow for me :P A mod fixes that. So, counter-intuitively, if you want the game to be more realistic, you will NOT change it in the INI. Bethesda actually did a good job. Interesting post. Makes me want to change the arc back to default. But(!) i feel like the arc is auto changing. If i aim close than the game gives me shallow arc. If i aim far than the arrow foes in a higher arc. So basically i never had to compensate for distance. Am i right? Also, has anyone tried the magnetism thing? Does it help arrows go where u aim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Roleplay. It's just more fun to make headshots. :) It's less fun when their heads appear to be noncorporeal, however... Agreed. I do the same. I love getting a good headshot insta-kill from a couple hundred meters away even if it doesn't matter (only possible to hit that far away with fVisibleNavmeshMoveDist=14000.0000 in the ini otherwise the arrow passes right through the enemy/bear/living thing) To chime in on the thread, I'll post what I said in another place: The arc they put in the game is ON PURPOSE. Not to counteract gravity to make it easier to aim, definitely not to make some kind of auto-aim (though I realize there may be some kind of auto-aim arrow magnetism thing going on when the arrow just would otherwise barely miss). It's because arrows fly in an arc regardless of how straight you aim them. It comes down to technique. Archers "nock" their arrows on the string a little lower than the tip of the arrow being held in place by the hand/grip. Thus the back of the arrow is a little lower than the front. This is to help hit targets in real life. It gives the arrow a natural arc. Also, some arching comes from the way the bow is aimed in relation to the arrow. When one aims, he pulls the arrow back so that his hand's thumb (that is holding the string) meets his lip. He then aims down the shaft, nut not directly (since the back end of the arrow is around his lip, not his eye. Thus, if you're looking down range in a straight line (represented by the crosshair in game) and the back of the arrow is beneath your eye, then the tip of the arrow is pointed up, creating an arc. I've practiced archery with all manner of bows since I was quite young [about 8]. Bonus fact: For a very long time, gun's "iron sights" have been crafted in a way that causes you to aim slightly higher than your target when aiming down sight even when you think you're actually aiming perfectly straight. This is to emulate the same built-in mechanics of a bow arching an arrow. All are created to counter-act gravity. Personally, I leave my arc default. I do not change the ini settings, because I can honestly say as a bit of a real life archer, that Bethesda's arc is pretty natural. As it stands in the game, the default arc is great. Just like in real life, within so many feet, aiming at a bullseye directly WILL cause you to hit slightly higher than the bullseye. Then at longer distances, you must still manually tilt your bow to aim higher. Bethesda got it right on the money. Except with arrow speed. Way too slow for me :P A mod fixes that. So, counter-intuitively, if you want the game to be more realistic, you will NOT change it in the INI. Bethesda actually did a good job. Interesting post. Makes me want to change the arc back to default. But(!) i feel like the arc is auto changing. If i aim close than the game gives me shallow arc. If i aim far than the arrow foes in a higher arc. So basically i never had to compensate for distance. Am i right? Also, has anyone tried the magnetism thing? Does it help arrows go where u aim?Image I made in photoshop, taking 1000 hours to complete:http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/1859/bowskyrim.jpg To dispell some rumors, the game does not auto aim or auto adjust the arc so that the arrow always hits where your cursor is looking. The arc is the same every time. The arrow rises up past your crosshair at ~10 feet or so in front of you and then drops down below the crosshair at, guessing, ~25 feet, before continuing to the ground. The reason some people think the game is auto-aiming or auto-adjusting the arc is because you can practically hit anything within 25 feet of you buy putting your crosshair on it. But you'll notice that if you aim for someone's head, you MUST master this natural curve. Anything past ~25 feet requires your to start aiming your crosshair quite a bit higher than the target. Look at the diagram again and remember that the red line indicates where your crosshair on the screen is pointing. Also note that the arc in the diagram has been exaggerated to make it obvious. In the game, the arrow won't fly THAT much higher than your line of sight, but it will still behave similarly -- start right beneath your line of sight, travel up over it, then back down past it, then continue down into the ground. The game by default doesn't let you fire arrows very far. If you shoot a target from a couple hundred feet away, the arrow will actually pass through them (even if you "hit them") and not register. This is because the game has been programmed not to calculate "Hit boxes" (invisible boxes all over living creature's bodies which detect if something hits or not) from too far away. By changing the skyrim.ini like this: [actor]fVisibleNavmeshMoveDist=14000.0000 the game will calculate hitboxes for up to 14,000 units away (this is very far, further away than the game will even load creatures) so that your arrows WILL register hits on the target regardless of how far away he/she/it is. When trying to hit targets from a great distance, you WILL have to start aiming up considerably. I stand by my assertion that the game does not modify the arc to "assist" your aim. You can test this on the target dummies. It's actually pretty awesome that Bethesda put this much detail into bows. There really should be something in the game explaining it though. I guess they hope people just catch on. Anyway, I'm not sure about the magnetism auto-target stuff people have mentioned. I would guess that if such a thing is in the game, what it does is this: If your arrow just narrowly misses someone by an inch or two, it sucks the arrow into them anyway. Thus increasing your chance to hit. I, however, have not noticed such a thing. ::MONSTROUS EDIT:: Oh me, oh my -- I did some testing against live enemies instead of dummies. Everything above I said is 100% true. However, only against dummies, buckets, inanimate objects. When it comes to hit detection against live things, arrows definitely "snap" to the enemy when the arrow comes close to him. In otherwords, if it would fly just foot over his head, it'll snap down to hit the center of his head. You can watch the arrow fly... going for his head... closer... closer... just about to go over, and then WHAM teleported about 4 inches down so that it goes through the center of his head. Oddly, this doesn't happen when you're close to the living target. If you're close, the arrow will go exactly where it should (according to the rules stated up above). But when you get 15+ feet away, the game starts auto-aiming for you. Eek. The further away you are, the more egregious the auto aiming. 30 feet away? Then expect an arrow that would otherwise brush past someone's arm to instead fly straight for their head head instead. I tested this by going into the console and typing "TAI" and "TCAI". This disables all AI, globally. In otherwords, everyone just stands around and won't react to anything. You're free to use them as pincushions for tests. Go ahead and test it. It's more obvious if you're using the eagle-eye perk, so you can watch the arrow deliberately fly to the enemy, even if you're aiming off to a side/above. I REALLY hope there's a way to turn this off. All those headshots I had are now worth nothing to me :( http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5485/skyrimautoaim.jpg Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Roleplay. It's just more fun to make headshots. :) It's less fun when their heads appear to be noncorporeal, however... Agreed. I do the same. I love getting a good headshot insta-kill from a couple hundred meters away even if it doesn't matter (only possible to hit that far away with fVisibleNavmeshMoveDist=14000.0000 in the ini otherwise the arrow passes right through the enemy/bear/living thing) To chime in on the thread, I'll post what I said in another place: The arc they put in the game is ON PURPOSE. Not to counteract gravity to make it easier to aim, definitely not to make some kind of auto-aim (though I realize there may be some kind of auto-aim arrow magnetism thing going on when the arrow just would otherwise barely miss). It's because arrows fly in an arc regardless of how straight you aim them. It comes down to technique. Archers "nock" their arrows on the string a little lower than the tip of the arrow being held in place by the hand/grip. Thus the back of the arrow is a little lower than the front. This is to help hit targets in real life. It gives the arrow a natural arc. Also, some arching comes from the way the bow is aimed in relation to the arrow. When one aims, he pulls the arrow back so that his hand's thumb (that is holding the string) meets his lip. He then aims down the shaft, nut not directly (since the back end of the arrow is around his lip, not his eye. Thus, if you're looking down range in a straight line (represented by the crosshair in game) and the back of the arrow is beneath your eye, then the tip of the arrow is pointed up, creating an arc. I've practiced archery with all manner of bows since I was quite young [about 8]. Bonus fact: For a very long time, gun's "iron sights" have been crafted in a way that causes you to aim slightly higher than your target when aiming down sight even when you think you're actually aiming perfectly straight. This is to emulate the same built-in mechanics of a bow arching an arrow. All are created to counter-act gravity. Personally, I leave my arc default. I do not change the ini settings, because I can honestly say as a bit of a real life archer, that Bethesda's arc is pretty natural. As it stands in the game, the default arc is great. Just like in real life, within so many feet, aiming at a bullseye directly WILL cause you to hit slightly higher than the bullseye. Then at longer distances, you must still manually tilt your bow to aim higher. Bethesda got it right on the money. Except with arrow speed. Way too slow for me :P A mod fixes that. So, counter-intuitively, if you want the game to be more realistic, you will NOT change it in the INI. Bethesda actually did a good job. Interesting post. Makes me want to change the arc back to default. But(!) i feel like the arc is auto changing. If i aim close than the game gives me shallow arc. If i aim far than the arrow foes in a higher arc. So basically i never had to compensate for distance. Am i right? Also, has anyone tried the magnetism thing? Does it help arrows go where u aim?Image I made in photoshop, taking 1000 hours to complete: ::MONSTROUS EDIT:: Oh me, oh my -- I did some testing against live enemies instead of dummies. Everything above I said is 100% true. However, only against dummies, buckets, inanimate objects. When it comes to hit detection against live things, arrows definitely "snap" to the enemy when the arrow comes close to him. In otherwords, if it would fly just foot over his head, it'll snap down to hit the center of his head. You can watch the arrow fly... going for his head... closer... closer... just about to go over, and then WHAM teleported about 4 inches down so that it goes through the center of his head. Oddly, this doesn't happen when you're close to the living target. If you're close, the arrow will go exactly where it should (according to the rules stated up above). But when you get 15+ feet away, the game starts auto-aiming for you. Eek. The further away you are, the more egregious the auto aiming. 30 feet away? Then expect an arrow that would otherwise brush past someone's arm to instead fly straight for their head head instead. I tested this by going into the console and typing "TAI" and "TCAI". This disables all AI, globally. In otherwords, everyone just stands around and won't react to anything. You're free to use them as pincushions for tests. Go ahead and test it. It's more obvious if you're using the eagle-eye perk, so you can watch the arrow deliberately fly to the enemy, even if you're aiming off to a side/above. I REALLY hope there's a way to turn this off. All those headshots I had are now worth nothing to me :( http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5485/skyrimautoaim.jpg Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) ::edit:: False alarm. No fix. Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogiefluff Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Before you do that, Narmix, please test the tweaks you're posting. I just did and they changed absolutely nothing for me. I was actually in the middle of some extensive testing, including taking videos and screenshots which I intend to post here shortly. I saw your post and gave those a go too, but they still didn't disable auto-aiming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogiefluff Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Well, here are the lines I tested (I also tested Narmix's settings, see test #4): fAutoAimMaxDegreesfAutoAimMaxDegrees3rdPersonfAutoAimMaxDistance I've got some preliminary results, but this may need further testing from more people. Goal: Fire an arrow closely past the enemy's head without hit detection sucking the arrow into him and registering a hit. The setup:http://i.imgur.com/CscTy.jpg First test: all values of 0.Results: Arrows quite visibly curve into the enemy hitbox. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2epkDGGRH0(Video note: the second test after loading the quicksave is a better example than the first one)Image: http://imgur.com/u9Zzl(Image note: I thought I captured several very good shots of this occuring from both sides of the head, however the arrow trails don't appear to show up in my screenshots.) Second test: all values of 0.01.Results: Same as above. Third test: AutoAimDegrees set to 90, MaxDistance unchanged at 0.01.Results: Same as above. Fourth test: Following Narmix's post above this, using the following lines: bAutoAimBasedOnDistance=0, fAutoAimMaxDegrees=0, AutoAimMaxDegrees3rdPerson=0, fAutoAimMaxDistance=0, fMagnetismStrafeHeadingMult=0, fMagnetismLookingMult=0Results: Same as above. Conclusion: I'm reasonably sure that these lines do not adjust the auto-aim mechanic. There must be something else... but what? (By the way, I ran the same three tests on a different enemy before the Thalmor lady and got the same results, but I discarded them because the enemy in question was stuck in an animation loop and I thought it might have been affecting the results.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narmix Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Well, here are the lines I tested (I also tested Narmix's settings, see test #4): fAutoAimMaxDegreesfAutoAimMaxDegrees3rdPersonfAutoAimMaxDistance I've got some preliminary results, but this may need further testing from more people. Goal: Fire an arrow closely past the enemy's head without hit detection sucking the arrow into him and registering a hit. The setup: [sNIPPED IMAGE] First test: all values of 0.Results: Arrows quite visibly curve into the enemy hitbox. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2epkDGGRH0(Video note: the second test after loading the quicksave is a better example than the first one)Image: http://imgur.com/u9Zzl(Image note: I thought I captured several very good shots of this occuring from both sides of the head, however the arrow trails don't appear to show up in my screenshots.) Second test: all values of 0.01.Results: Same as above. Third test: AutoAimDegrees set to 90, MaxDistance unchanged at 0.01.Results: Same as above. Fourth test: Following Narmix's post above this, using the following lines: bAutoAimBasedOnDistance=0, fAutoAimMaxDegrees=0, AutoAimMaxDegrees3rdPerson=0, fAutoAimMaxDistance=0, fMagnetismStrafeHeadingMult=0, fMagnetismLookingMult=0Results: Same as above. Conclusion: I'm reasonably sure that these lines do not adjust the auto-aim mechanic. There must be something else... but what? (By the way, I ran the same three tests on a different enemy before the Thalmor lady and got the same results, but I discarded them because the enemy in question was stuck in an animation loop and I thought it might have been affecting the results.) Really really strange. After I edited them, I took these screenshots: http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3120/nomoreautoaim.th.jpg I'm now firing far closer to them than I have before and they're not arching to hit the target or teleporting into them as they had been before. Did you add the lines to the [actor] bit? Not somewhere else? Also, I don't know if it matters, but is your actor section at the END of the ini? Also, make sure it's the skyrim.ini and not the skyrimprefs.ini. It seems to be working great for me now. ::EDIT:: No, apparently not. When I try shooting from your angles, I get your exact same results. Gah. Edited November 23, 2011 by Narmix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firstprice Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 As a person that has been shooting competitive with bow for a year, I've never even heard about a fixed arc. I take it it's only for old bows, and not for modern ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfstriker Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 This is where the RPG aspect ruins Skyrim for me.If you pump up archery to huge levels then of course it should arc and hit but I am more in the mood to use my own skills to get kills.If you guys can remove the auto aim its greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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