Loot Scaling - Horrible Design

[JimboUK]

What would be the better system?

 

Not your hypothesis, but what is in fact a better looting system? I'm interested enough to know what some people believe is better.

 

Morrowinds system was fine, yes you could get the really powerful stuff early but it was guarded by very high level mobs meaning if you got it you had certainly earned it.

[Clawdius69Talonious]

It would be nice if, at least, the Daedric quest items would be able to be improved by bringing them back to the Daedra in question to have them "upgraded" by another quest. three quests apiece post acquisition could be added via the radiant story system without much trouble in a mod I would imagine. I found it quite disturbing that Mehrunes' Razor was utter garbage, even after I upgraded it with my smithing skills to legendary. I could turn any ebony dagger into a blade that did quite a bit more damage than it, although it didn't have the "chance" for something more. I certainly might have even used the thing, if I didn't already have the ability to one shot a giant with my 30x sneak attack with any dagger I upgraded. I guess it would have still looked really nice on a plaque, in the house in Windhelm.

[Gabbemaster]

I think Beth's argument for having level-scaling on everything is that they want their world to be completely open, all the time. You should be able to go everywhere, at any level, and take down dragons and stuff right from the start. If they had a system where they didn't scale stuff according to the players level, the world would be limited by the fact that you would get killed as soon as you entered certain areas. For me, the second alternative is way better than the first, but it all comes down to economics in the end. What do they earn most money from? A game that focus on giving the best experience ever for the few (in comparison) hardcore gamers like me, or a game that focus on giving the best experience to the biggest audience, the answer is simple. Most people I know wouldn't want that kind of a challenge, they want a shot of epicness, and an injection of heroism, right from the start.

This case have been proven many times over, just look at The Witcher 2 as an example, it was so hard in the beginning that they had to release a patch to make it more appealing to a broader audience. Its sad, but its the sad truth.

[saintjimmyz]

In my opinion, levelling of any kind is bad, very bad. I loved the feel of Morrowind; where as a level 1 new character you were useless, who would often get killed by mudcrabs and cliff racers, but when you get to level 50ish, you dominate pretty much everything you come against. It means that you actually get a feeling of progressing as you level, rather than the current system, which focuses on your personal ability as a player, and not the ability of your character. There is no real reason why common bandits should suddenly get more powerful when you level up. Bandits are bandits, they should remain at a constant level, they are usually fairly seasoned fighters, so can easily slay a level 1 new character, but no where near as powerful or as capable as a vastly experienced character at level 40ish. Reaching level 40-50 should make you one of the most powerful people/creatures in the game, and in Morrowind it actually felt like that.

 

And dont get me started on loot levelling. Dwemer weapons and armour are ancient relics of a lost civilisation, glass and ebony weapons and armour are very hard to make, made from very rare and expensive materials, so there are only a handful of sets in existance, and daedric weapons and armour are made from an actual daedra for goodness sake. They should remain that rare, and not suddenly be found in every bears cave or being used by a common bandit because you reached a certain level. Levelling loot defeats the point of there being rare items and common items, when everyone around you is using similar strength equipment, as whenever powerful equipment is 'unlocked' to be found as loot, enemies start possessing the same equipment. Utterly ridiculous, and imension breaking. Seeing bandits walking around in full dwemer killed Oblivion for me, and seeing mercenaries in full ebony and bandits wielding ebony swords has killed Skyrim for me now. I cant wait for a mod that destroys levelling lists entirely.

[rukkis]

The biggest problem with leveling loot in a game like this is that it takes away the carrot on the stick. If I'm gonna be holding the same sword from level 10 to 80+ its going to get old pretty quick

[IrishSpyral]

If the did a 'loot leveller' mod that would be great so that every 10th level you can visit a shrine/forge/something and any unique items would be leveled up.

[mtsalmela80]

Not your hypothesis, but what is in fact a better looting system? I'm interested enough to know what some people believe is better.

 

I think one of the more common oblivion mods had a better solution. Let the items level with you.

 

The idea of a leveled quest reward makes plenty of sense. the issue is that if you get a "legendary" weapon at level 5, that is appropriate for level 5, it won't be appropriate for level 25, and your "legendary" weapon is just vendor trash suddenly. But if you get a weapon at level 5 that would be appropriate for level 25, then its OP for 20 levels. So leveled rewards makes sense. So, take it a step further, make them level with you. As soon as you hit level 10, you get a new version thats more appropriate strength for level 5 instead of level 10. Same at 15, 20, or whatever the level increments, so your legendary rewards remain legendary, but not overpowered.

 

If a particular sword has certain stats, unrelated to your own combat stats, based on your level that that is silly. Part of the fun of these games is going on a long journey and finding a special weapon or armor, early in the game. Staying on steel until you are level 25 or above is just plain boring and dull. But finding a special unique weapon only to discover its nerfed because you failed to power level before finding it is just plain idiotic.

 

Just because you find a powerful weapon early does not mean the game is going to be cake. Your skill, HP, etc will still be too low to take on the entire game world. But apparently, leveling in this game is a lot close to Oblivion than the developers lead us to believe.

[Trey5511]

If a particular sword has certain stats, unrelated to your own combat stats, based on your level that that is silly. Part of the fun of these games is going on a long journey and finding a special weapon or armor, early in the game. Staying on steel until you are level 25 or above is just plain boring and dull. But finding a special unique weapon only to discover its nerfed because you failed to power level before finding it is just plain idiotic.

 

I enjoy at least modicum of balance in my games. Getting armor or weapons two or three times as strong as would be appropriate for your level is unbalancing. If you don't think so, then I really don't know what you're doing in your game.

[saintjimmyz]

Thats not balance, all that does is ensure the game is near enough equally challenging the whole way through, thus utterly defeating the point of levelling. Many games do this in the name of 'balance', for some reason I cannot fathom. Levelling makes you better, thats the whole point of gaining levels, it does not do that if everything around you rises to match you, it makes the difficulty of the game near enough static from start to end, destroying any form of satisfaction from reaching the high levels of the game. Some developers have realised this, and done away with the farce of levelling in these so called 'balanced' games, and have made the game purely about the player skill, such as assassins creed. Id rather bethesda just did this if they want the emphasis to be on player skill and not character skill, rather than have the current farciscal situation. Better still, Id rather levelled lists get sent back to the depths of hell, because no sane man could possibly invent such a logic defying system.

[Trey5511]

Thats not balance

 

That is balance, actually. Remove level scaling and you have bad gameplay for the majority of the game, because either its an absolute joke, or insanely hard, depending on how you curve it. You're going to have to sacrifice logic somewhere if you want good gameplay. You're right, a leveled up character in skyrim should be much stronger than your average everything. It makes for pretty boring gameplay when you can just wade through the hordes of mobs in the game. And in the current system anyway, if you don't feel more powerful as you level, you're doing something wrong.

 

Do you want to be able to level up and then have no challenge left in the game because nothing can reasonably face you? (which is how it is anyway in skyrim) It gets boring. Fast.

 

Basing it on player skill? Kill that rpg element even harder!