surg23 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Or you can keep the difficulty above 'super noob easy mode', and not read a guide, and never reach most legendary items until you're actually qualified to get them. You can break any game if you try hard enough with walkthroughs, tips, tricks, and easy mode. But clearly every random person on the internet knows how to make games better than Bethesda... Play on master difficulty. On 3rd character, haven't looked up anything online, its a waste...sooo not quite sure what point your trying to make here. Anyways, its a terrible system. I think the way Morrowind was setup had the best design. Not jumping on anyone's side here, but Morrowind was the most exploitable game ever made. The fact that morrowind can be finished in under 10 minutes speaks for itself. Is that what you want all games to be like, or do you simply want total control ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpestilence Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 All of this argument about leveling items... The only thing that changes on the unique items is the level of enchantment. Mehrunes Razor, for example, will be identical if you get it at level 1 or 80. Sure, it is not as powerful as a fully improved Daedric dagger.... But the chance to insta-kill any enemy (even Alduin) makes up for the stats. It seems only the Nightingale armor and a few enchanted weapons like Chillrend are actually affected by character level. So... This entire 4-page rant is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrotek Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Leveling items isnt a great idea either.You just rush every item you want and dont have to switch anymore because you always have the best gear? Great idea, a lot of the motivation to play gone. Why you guys think, so few RPGs use a system like that? Also, if you woud make the "normal" items stronger or nerf the craftingskills everyone will whining about useless crafting skills ... Its incredible hard to balance natural drops, fixed drops and crafting system all together and i doubt that any mod will fix that withhout a real big overhaul of the whole system. Have fun waiting for months till the first real overhauls will show up. Some sort of fully fixed loot will probaly work, but how you want to realize that in a game, where u can go everywhere, every time? Except if you also fix the levels of enemys depending on areas, but that will get incredible frustrating ... and also A LOT of work. And eventually it destroys much of the sandbox-part of the game. Edited January 4, 2012 by Cyrotek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyberSmoke Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Leveling items isnt a great idea either.You just rush every item you want and dont have to switch anymore because you always have the best gear? Great idea, a lot of the motivation to play gone. Why you guys think, so few RPGs use a system like that? Also, if you woud make the "normal" items stronger or nerf the craftingskills everyone will whining about useless crafting skills ... Its incredible hard to balance natural drops, fixed drops and crafting system all together and i doubt that any mod will fix that withhout a real big overhaul of the whole system. Have fun waiting for months till the first real overhauls will show up. Some sort of fully fixed loot will probaly work, but how you want to realize that in a game, where u can go everywhere, every time? Except if you also fix the levels of enemys depending on areas, but that will get incredible frustrating ... and also A LOT of work. And eventually it destroys much of the sandbox-part of the game. My 2 Cents follows:The problem faced by games of this type is far more basic then the power of items at any given level. It is the concept of a Level in the first place. While leveling makes sense in certain conditions, an open world game looses some of that reasoning because there will then always be a "Level Appropriate" excuse to use and it will only serve to limit how the player is able to act in the world. It is not the items that are the problem, it is the root system that those items rest on. Having read the discussion, many people here could be of the same view point. That being it is not the items, but the idea that the world has definable steps of awesomeness. So really the only true way to fix the issue, allow people to have a sense of accomplishment, and still provide a clear set of goals would be a more rational experience purchase system with out a level structure. In table top RPG's this is called a skill based system and there have been a few systems like this. Where each time you strike a foe, do something cool, etc. You get experience points. A system of this type would not need to change the current skill structure, but instead it would remove leveling for the purpose of gaining perks and instead allow the player to buy them based on the characters current skill and the amount o stored XP. Since the skill rank would be the measure of a characters knowledge and the perk would be a benefit gained from incites through the use of that knowledge. This method would then alter the toughness of the character and of enemies. It would make less advanced items a little more deadly as the player progresses, but would also make better weapons a little less necessary, but still good to have. It would also open up a path to growing your characters HP, Magica, and Stamina and would be very viable to balancing enemies that you could face. But it would be a complicated remake to be sure. But it would be a solid path to maintaining balance over a longer run with out having strange spikes in the enemies you face. Given how the engine works, it may even allow a better gradation of the enemies so that they are more skill appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thompsonar Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think someone hinted at this, but it's a interesting point. There are complaints about using the same boring equipment for many levels because nothing exists that's much better. Yet you want to be able to get some legendary weapon/item early on and then use it for the rest of the game.... kinda contradictory no? Wouldn't the legendary weapon/item then be the same old boring equipment you've had forever? You know there will plenty of mods to add new and interesting weapons eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyberSmoke Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think someone hinted at this, but it's a interesting point. There are complaints about using the same boring equipment for many levels because nothing exists that's much better. Yet you want to be able to get some legendary weapon/item early on and then use it for the rest of the game.... kinda contradictory no? Wouldn't the legendary weapon/item then be the same old boring equipment you've had forever? You know there will plenty of mods to add new and interesting weapons eventually. In truth a weapon is a weapon. The damage it does is based on it's mass, edge, and the size of that edge. So really, most of the weapons would have relatively the same damage with in a type because there is only so much that can be done. So the real question is, is it the weapon that does more damage...OR is it the characters skill that adds to the damage of the weapon? I know people are after the ever awesome OMGPWNHammer...but that should never exist, well not unless your also willing to get pawned in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crippledorphan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Lol you guys are crazy items level with you IMO is stupid that's one of the main reason I like the game ok I get this mace of the epic adventure let a say 20 hp 20 stam and soul drain ok well if it scaled with me I would never look for a better weapon maybe that unique weapon wasn't meant to last yor pc it's while life Ok I bought a new hat it's Awsome I love it it's got glasses attached to it and a mp3 attached to it that should last me forever ok 10 years later or even a week later I found a new hat that has glasses mp3 and wifi even better then after that I found a hat that. Has all that plus ac unit on it IMO I think it makes you keep exploring for better upgrades The boas in wow ruined wow for a lot of people they leveled to fast and the didn't get to see all the content that certain zone presented them I'm gonna have to say I like the weapons stats set in stone no since in crying about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emuchan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Other games like Gothic for example simply built in a requirement for weapons and armor, so the Wonder-Sworf of awesome killing would need one-Handed 80 to use for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smosh Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Very slightly OT/ I have always liked the way that in Oblivion MMM had his monsters have a range of levels. That way you were never sure what you were going to encounter but you always knew that bandits, for example, were not going to be above say level 10. This also did away with the ridiculous loot drops as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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