Guys who play girl characters

[naonpisarek]

I play women characters sometimes, I think the logic goes 'If you're going to be staring at someones ass for the next 40 hours, it may as well be a womans' :D

 

Often though it's a stylistic/aesthetic choice, it doesn't affect my playstyle that much.

[myrmaad]

You can only think of two.

 

You've never watched the Oscars then, I suppose. I always do, and though they do have hair and makeup done, the lighting is generic for all of them.

 

Your standards sound oh so high. :rolleyes: On the other hand I am a pretty woman with a lot of pretty women in my friends and family. My niece could have easily become a beautiful actress if she'd gone to hollywood, she definitely has the acting talent and she's absolutely stunning. Though I'm older now, I have been called stunning myself when I was younger. Beautiful women are everywhere, and the idea that they don't exist except with the magic of photoshop and smoke and mirrors is offensive and simply wrong and stupid. That's just my opinion.

 

Stupid? I have high standards that much is true but I think you've misinterpreted what I've posted:

 

Also on the supermodel thing, it is a matter of taste but if you think that ladies on magazine covers really look that good without some help from photoshop you are wrong. Most movie stars need the right make up and lighting to look anything like they do on film. I can only think of a few who look good in unfavourable conditions and these are the truly beautiful women.

 

The important part in this post is "that good" (like a movie star or super model) as opposed to being pretty in a natural sort of way. I was reacting on the subject of "super" models as opposed to real women. TV and the media force upon us a sanitized and stereotyped representation of beauty (which is probably why so many women feel the need to undergo plastic surgery unfortunately).

 

Also I wouldn't say that the oscar ceremony is shot with unfavourable lighting. Watch an interview or a making off with ordinary/natural light and not necessarily the right angle and many actresses won't look so amazingly beautiful (and some may look rather plain). That implies that many "regular" women would look as good as most movie stars or models with the right light and make up.

 

That being said it is utterly naive to think that photoshop is not routinely used on pictures found in magazines, ads and the like.

 

IMO a truly beautiful woman doesn't need make up and "smoke and mirrors" to look gorgeous. Heck a truly beautiful woman will be stunning early in the morning without any make up and in a disheveled state.

 

 

Omg if you only knew how amazingly condescending you sound.

[Shantih]

Omg if you only knew how amazingly condescending you sound.

 

I understand I may have offended you but let me tell you that it wasn't my intent. You have your opinion and I have mine. Contrary to you I never said yours was stupid (or wrong which as far as I'm concerned is pretty condescending) so let's leave it at that.

[myrmaad]

Let me lay it out for you:

 

You were asked if "hot girls" aren't believable or don't exist in your world. Your reply included this: "Most movie stars need the right make up and lighting to look anything like they do on film. I can only think of a few who look good in unfavourable conditions and these are the truly beautiful women." Considering most women who become movie stars (a visual medium relying on glamor) are at or near the top of the beauty/charisma food chain it sounds to me as if your standards are freakishly inflated.

 

I'm the one who said:

 

Beautiful women are everywhere, and the idea that they don't exist "except with the magic of photoshop and smoke and mirrors" is offensive and simply wrong and stupid.

 

Again, it is the idea that beautiful women don't exist without "magic" that is simply wrong and stupid.

 

Furthermore, my point is that there are beautiful women everywhere and unfortunately they are preyed upon by toxic others (men, women, media) who have something to gain such as control or profit by playing on their insecurities. If a movie star isn't good enough then how on earth is the girl next door ever going to measure up?

 

Worst of all, there is a faction of men who want us women to believe that wearing makeup is somehow cheating and we should be able to look beautiful without cosmetics etc. That is the most pathetic of all, if I feel like going without makeup that's my business and if I prefer to wear it that's also my business. It smacks of "the man trying to keep me down". Well applied makeup just flatters what we've already got, and we're not going to listen to detractors, but we will see them for the haters they really are.

 

There isn't a single woman on earth who was put here solely to live up to your standard of what is beautiful.

[SaveVsBedWet]

Because underneath every roleplaying game is a game of playing with dolls. Sure, they may be more interactive, and your method of play may be more violent than your typical game of house (robot chicken not withstanding), and there may be all these statistics involved... But Underneath it all, it's playing with dolls. The dressing up of various armors and clothes on an avatar only amplifies this.

 

From a roleplay standpoint, female characters tend to have more emotional range in their overt responses according to most social norms, more social conflicts related to their gender, so they tend to be more interesting characters to play/watch. Atleast on paper. Have yet to see a game which really does the female gender well and includes all those elements that women deal with constantly that men simply have no understanding of... Like monthlys, overt sexism, sexual abuse, real romance and relationship issues. Not to say that such a game would go over particularly well, but it would certainly give an unrivaled environment from a characterization perspective. Men in contrast generally get lumped into three groups; hard workers, hard fighters, or lazy and corrupt. Their conflicts are rarely internal and usually involve their direct dealings with the world. Their emotions are usually reduced to "kill it", "kill it only if it attacks", "protect it", "take it or make it", "run away", "extort it for profit", "try to have sex with it". Sometimes in that order, sometimes in the reverse order, sometimes in no order at all. I know there are some exceptions to this, but at the end of the day, it's usually the contrast between what you deal with every day and what you deal with in fantasy which tends to make things more interesting.

 

Every day I wake up I'm Beefy McBeardyface, on a quest of seeking riches, being industrious, fighting evil, and eventually having sex with a significant other (even if it happens off-camera and is only eluded to in the prologue)... So experiences outside of that usually have to be manufactured.... Kinda thing.

 

 

But, the real question... Is any of this unhealthy for a male of any age or nationality? No. Cognitively speaking, it allows men an emotional outlet outside of their social environment which might otherwise build up and come out as either aggression towards those emotions (eg, stereotypical sexually repressed/closeted bullies), or suddenly take over in an act of chaotic breakdown. It allows a safe area of expression and catharsis which is usually absent in real life. Including the occasional oogling of a barely clad, often nude female form that does almost everything you want (until mods are made). The 'problem' is when this sort of behavior starts to overwhelm their own baseline personality and starts to cross over in various ways... Borderline gender dysphoria, fascination with things not normal to your gender (clothing styles), becoming too emotional, or just having an extreme interest in only 2d/fake girls.

 

And universally, everyone enjoys watching a woman kicking all forms of ass. It's why Tomb Raider, Xena, and several other franchises have a successful heroine.

 

And also... too much man-butt when playing games 3rd person.

 

This. I can also see that dynamic being applied to why some men do the same thing in games like SecondLife, and even on message boards, provided they can pull it off. Female protagonists are simply more interesting than male protagonists. Partially due to men being done to death, and partially due to the extreme lack of emotional range it takes to portray a man in a fictional story. In short, I'm as boring as the line at the Department of Motor Vehicles, and I'd rather read a book, play a game or see a show about any woman than one even about myself. I've already seen my story and the best review I can give it is that I wish I'd rented it off Netflix cause then at least I could return it for a better movie.

Edited December 29, 2011 by SaveVsBedWet

[wesside0yes]

This is me and my husband and recreations I made of us in the CS.

 

http://tesalliance.org/forums/uploads/1250717709/med_gallery_125_36_44113.jpg

 

 

 

He doesn't play video games much. Here is his character who I play as, ingame.

 

http://tesalliance.org/forums/uploads/1258514039/med_gallery_125_36_115429.jpg

 

 

It doesn't mean I want to be a guy. It means I want to explore the game world from a perspective I imagine as his.

 

I'm sorry, I hate to critize and I hate it even more to sway of topic, but I have to remark that your husbands character seemingly appears to female as opposed to his comparing picture. It is that his face seems to appear to smooth, as if lined with make-up. Just my observation though, take from it what you will.

 

Which brings me back on topic, as the reocurring trend that seems to spawn here is the statement that male characters in Skyrim seem sluggish, gravely misanimated and some even state, and excuse my French, "ugly". I have to say I never disagreed more. Me and my fellow Skyrim playing friends even noted that apparently every single individuel in Skyrim, even the elderly, came walking right from the catwalks of Paris straight into the farm lands of Tamriel. I even dare to state that some characters in Skyrim are to good looking to be actually convincing. Yes, we all know characters in previous renditions of Bethesda shared a great deal of similarities with repulsive looking feet, so you may say this is in all an improvement, I suppose this is true.

 

Nevertheless, I as male still prefer to play as a male character ingame. I enjoy immersion very much in games like Skyrim and I feel I can relate more closely with a male character as opposed to a female character. But at the end of the day Skyrim still remains a game meant for the enjoyment of the player, and it is the player's freedome to choose on how he wishes to experience his gameplay.

[Shantih]

There isn't a single woman on earth who was put here solely to live up to your standard of what is beautiful.

 

I've met a few who more than live up to my standard. After all beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it is very subjective and maybe the women I consider beautiful wouldn't match your own standards.

 

There is no arguing when it comes to matters of taste and I've already said in my previous post (the one that offended you) that it is indeed a matter of taste.

 

I know most people see movie stars as being the best of the best but quite frankly I don't (which may be the main difference between our perspectives). Some are incredibly charismatic women but I wouldn't go as far as saying that most of them are.

 

In fact the point I was trying to make is that any woman can probably look as good as most movie stars under the right conditions. When I posted that "most movie stars need the right make up and lighting to look anything like they do on film" I simply meant that most movie stars don't look any better than regular women without the right make up and lighting. In other words I find that most movie stars that people are raving about have a "girl next door" look.

 

To be frank (and please don't take this as being offensive to women in general I don't want to be insensitive but obviously I've offended you before and -I repeat- that was not my intent) I find that most experienced models and movie stars lack the spontaneity and freshness of a regular girl. There are exceptions of course but true charisma and presence or artless grace is not something as common as good looks. I can think of a particular Spanish actress who was incredibly beautiful in her first picture and then once she got to Hollywood she ended up looking like any other actress, her bloom was gone as if she had become too sophisticated, as if every thing about her had become calculated and planned to achieve an effect, something totally artificial. That's the sort of "perfection" that is achieved with all the "smoke and mirrors" and it's definitely not my ideal.

 

I have nothing against make up by the way. I'm not part of a patriarchal secret society dedicated to repressing women. Whether you're a man or a woman I don't see how taking care of yourself or trying to look good can be considered cheating. If it means that you're feeling good about yourself then it can only be healthy.

 

What I dislike is the sanitized (so-called) perfection that the media and society put forward and which make many women miserable and self conscious because they feel that they can't live up to that fake ideal (hence the mention of plastic surgery in my previous post). That's the reason why photoshop is used, that's also the reason why many actresses also use body doubles so it can seem on camera that they have the perfect figure or the perfect bodyparts.

 

True I have high standards but my standards are based on my personal idea of what I find beautiful -which is not as simple as being "hot" or having the "right" measurements. True beauty may not be that common but it can be found anywhere and it has nothing to do with the stereotypes that are forced on us by the media. Going over my previous posts I realize my phrasing could have been more explicit. I can understand that you may have been lead to believe that I'm endorsing the archetype of beauty that cover girls and super models are supposed to embody.

 

Anyway I hope I haven't given you more cause to be offended. Believe it or not I don't like offending people. I didn't expect anyone to react so badly to what I've posted here or to take it so much to heart. Frankly I feel bad about upsetting you. I've been taught to respect and honour women and I don't like that you seem to assume that I'm a chauvinist and that I'm part of a conspiracy to repress women.

 

If I were part of such a conspiracy why would I be complaining about the fact that I can't make a character that looks like a real woman in Skyrim? Why would I prefer playing a strong (and beautiful) female character like Éowyn instead of a random Barbie doll?

[Arcadiast]

"Men claim that Mao [Qiang] and Lady Li were beautiful, but if fish saw them they would dive to the bottom of the stream; if birds saw them they would fly away, and if deer saw them they would break into a run. Of these four, who knows how to fix the standard of beauty in the world? (2, tr. Watson 1968:46)"

 

Philosopy of Zhuangzi, translated by Burton Watson.

[myrmaad]

It was generous and courteous of you to take the effort to clarify your meaning and be understood, and I appreciate it very much.

 

What I dislike is the sanitized (so-called) perfection that the media and society put forward and which make many women miserable and self conscious because they feel that they can't live up to that fake ideal (hence the mention of plastic surgery in my previous post). That's the reason why photoshop is used, that's also the reason why many actresses also use body doubles so it can seem on camera that they have the perfect figure or the perfect bodyparts.

 

I think we can agree to a meeting of minds here. :)

[thesapien]

It's funny how when a mod introduces an armour that is for male characters only you see countless requests for a female version.

 

Personally I like variety but I haven't been able to play a female character in Skyrim because I can't get the right look. I've even tried some save games and several different mods but the female characters always look like they're either 15 or 50. I'd like my female character to look like a believable female which means that she shouldn't look like she is going down the catwalk or that she is standing in for one of the three witches in Macbeth. When I'm playing these games I can spend hours obsessing about the way my new character is going to look like. It may sound ridiculous but I can't relax and appreciate the game unless I get the look right for the concept I'm planning to develop.

 

I don't see anything wrong with roleplaying a character of the opposite gender. After all we're all humans and that never prevented most of us to roleplay elves or dwarves and (hopefully) we know a lot more about human females than we do about male elves or male dwarves (and I'm not even mentioning Khajits and Argonians here).

 

Hot girls aren't believable nor exist in your world?

I actually think Skyrim should be full of super hot people since they aren't fat, lazy, zombies living in my real world. It's like when you compare wild animals to animals in zoos.

 

 

There are actually a handful of saves available with 20 something characters. But yeah I don't see why looking like a model or supermodel even, would make a woman any less believable. Those ladies strutting about on TV and magazines are surely not CGI.

Though you certainly have your right of taste =)

 

FYI I live in France and over here we have more than our share of pretty ladies but most of them don't walk around waving battleaxes. :biggrin:

 

It's just that a pretty little thing with gloss and a manicure is not my idea of a fearsome female adventurer... I've been trying to make a character that looked good but not like a painted wench. Think Éowyn not Megan Fox.

 

Also on the supermodel thing, it is a matter of taste but if you think that ladies on magazine covers really look that good without some help from photoshop you are wrong. Most movie stars need the right make up and lighting to look anything like they do on film. I can only think of a few who look good in unfavourable conditions and these are the truly beautiful women.

 

Make up and gloss is a trick, deception. It tries to mimic natural health.

Beauty in terms of sexual attraction is about health and fitness for selecting mates.

Those who say beauty is in the eye of the beholder have unheathly eyes that are no longer able to distinguish between healthy and unhealthy mates. Or, they're just attracted to people broken and warped like themselves.

In my country, we are used to things like fake money removed from reality and using clothes and make up to mask our real states of health and well being. We even have something called "fat pride".