Skyrim isn't dumbed down. Purists are.

[Herculine]

It's just a video game.

How little you know

 

I don't claim to know a lot of anything, and you've never seen me make such claims here or anywhere else.

 

A few things I do know:

 

I've played Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas and now Skyrim. I've enjoyed each game, though each game has it's similarities with the others and it's differences. But in the end, they're only games. I enjoy them as pastimes, diversions, recreation, escapes from reality, stress relief and, when modding and forum-browsing, I enjoy them as outlets for creative impulses and an opportunity to connect with others with similar interests in the same games. But not one of them is such an important, integral part of my real life that I feel the need to try to prove to others that my way of playing them is right and theirs is wrong, that my opinions are facts and everyone else is "dumbed down" as the thread title claims. Everybody has their own likes and dislikes about these games and their own ways of enjoying them. The fact that this is so difficult for some people to accept is astonishing.

[Megaman1221]

To me games like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series are all about immersion, and I think Skyrim achieves that probably better than any of its predecessors. When you play Oblivion you plan out exactly which skills to chose for major skills so you can max out what you want to use in the game without leveling up, thereby obtaining your optimal character, or at least that's how most of the hardcore Oblivion players do it. Then you do dumb things like auto run into walls, auto sneak into walls, and find a low ceiling to jump into over and over and over and over and over and over etc. There is nothing realistic about that, and its kind of hard for me to feel like I prepare for traveling to Oblivion to fight godly daedra by jumping up and down like an idiot. Also I'm not sure why all these people are disappointed, Beth made no secret about how drastically the leveling system was going to change from Oblivion. During Skyrim's development if you watched any of the developer interviews or previews they continuously said that this game would be about leveling up by doing, the way it should be, and they've achieved that much better than I thought possible. If you want to be a warrior, you go out into the world and start hitting stuff, if you wanna be a thief start looting left and right. Oblivion often punished you for leveling, as often if you didn't plan out your character meticulously your level would often outpace your dependent skills and leave you fighting creatures too hard. And while certainly Oblivion was harder it wasn't interestingly harder like Dark Souls. It seemed like as creatures leveled up they just gained more HP, not really becoming any stronger or dynamic at all, but just annoying bags of hit points.

[Megaman1221]

To me games like the Elder Scrolls and Fallout series are all about immersion, and I think Skyrim achieves that probably better than any of its predecessors. When you play Oblivion you plan out exactly which skills to chose for major skills so you can max out what you want to use in the game without leveling up, thereby obtaining your optimal character, or at least that's how most of the hardcore Oblivion players do it. Then you do dumb things like auto run into walls, auto sneak into walls, and find a low ceiling to jump into over and over and over and over and over and over etc. There is nothing realistic about that, and its kind of hard for me to feel like I prepare for traveling to Oblivion to fight godly daedra by jumping up and down like an idiot. Also I'm not sure why all these people are disappointed, Beth made no secret about how drastically the leveling system was going to change from Oblivion. During Skyrim's development if you watched any of the developer interviews or previews they continuously said that this game would be about leveling up by doing, the way it should be, and they've achieved that much better than I thought possible. If you want to be a warrior, you go out into the world and start hitting stuff, if you wanna be a thief start looting left and right. Oblivion often punished you for leveling, as often if you didn't plan out your character meticulously your level would often outpace your dependent skills and leave you fighting creatures too hard. And while certainly Oblivion was harder it wasn't interestingly harder like Dark Souls. It seemed like as creatures leveled up they just gained more HP, not really becoming any stronger or dynamic at all, but just annoying bags of hit points.

[Handofbane]

I think they should take out the level system, make skills progress yes, but move people away from making it a leveling and unlocking game, and more so another world. It'd be a very big change that most people would find hard to adjust to, but a nessicary end.

I think you need to try the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games, those are pretty close to what you are asking for, though they are not a fantasy setting (sci-fi post-Chernobyl Ukraine).

[minngarm]

I think they should take out the level system, make skills progress yes, but move people away from making it a leveling and unlocking game, and more so another world. It'd be a very big change that most people would find hard to adjust to, but a nessicary end.

I think you need to try the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games, those are pretty close to what you are asking for, though they are not a fantasy setting (sci-fi post-Chernobyl Ukraine).

 

 

Not really stalker is a FPSRPG, no skills or levels just you your gear, shops, and quests. Its a great game I love it, but it lacks the depth and connection a true RPG can give you.

[Handofbane]

Not really stalker is a FPSRPG, no skills or levels just you your gear, shops, and quests. Its a great game I love it, but it lacks the depth and connection a true RPG can give you.

Correct, which is exactly what he is asking for. Not an true RPG, but a game where you have no stats or levels to worry about. And nobody can accuse that game of being "dumbed down" either (hell, it's downright hard on all difficulties at some points, first game I have played where I actually managed to die three times on the first mission/quest).

[xtriadx]

Been playing Elder Scroll games since Elder Scroll:Arena was brand new.......Skyrim has a lot of depth but it is not nearly as deep as its predecessors.

 

In some ways it is" dumbed down"-The Magic system being the most notable...I would like to make spells again please. It also is not as open as the previous games..in that it pushes you toward the main scripted quest..older games you could literally not even know there was a main questline.

 

Not complaining just saying those saying it is "dumbed down" do have a point.

 

Course i have never played these games as a min/maxxer or "cheated" to rapidly gain skills/items/whatever.....so that may be their problem.

Edited November 26, 2011 by xtriadx

[uruku7]

If you think there's more here than Morrowind, play Morrowind again. I too do not care about levels, stats, etc, but the stories here (main, guilds) are lacking in depth. They're short. "A Dance in Fire" has more content. From beginning to end, I felt far more immersed in Morrowind.

 

"Games have become very popular and people like me...a noob, sort of, in my own way...come on the scene and say, "whoa, this is way too hard or complicated" I get discouraged and find an easier game to play because this game frustrates me. I'm not the only one but a lot of noobs are doing the same. " ~Pineapplerum

 

Many people are like that, and that is fine, for them, but this is one of the things that is poison for something like Elder Scrolls. If Daggerfall were remade with Skyrim's graphics, even it's leveling system, people like Pineapplerum would not touch it, no matter how shiny it is. There was something intimidating about Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, that I, and maybe the elitists miss.

 

There are plenty of games out there for the casual gamer. I will say Skyrim is head-and-shoulders above other current games, but for me that isn't saying much, at all. Let the casual gamers play COD, God of War and the like. As far as I'm concerned, TES is not for the casual, and NEVER should be.

Edited November 26, 2011 by uruku7

[Goliath978]

Hmm. Have you all tried not running around at top speed? You tend to steamroll through everything and miss out on a lot of things, not to mention getting less out of the time spent. It's a big change and most people can't handle it and just start steaming at top speed, bit if you get into it it's immersive, and you learn to live every moment and see just how much you wouldve missed had you sprinted through. Now on morrowind I can't stand that...because there's not the tech to have much on the screen. Not it's fault.

 

But still: wih so much to be had in Skyrim there is depth If you open your arms to it.

[macole]

Skyrim is not dumbed down. Just because the Devs have chosen to replace a really horrible UI with a minimalist one does not mean that it is any less informative. Same goes for levels and classes. Predefined classes are obsolete, Bethesda has done a good job with their skill system. What good is a world like Skyrim if you can only do it as one predefined class? I think one of the best things in Skyrim is using magic to bring down a Dragon, then charging in with shield and sword and finishing it off with an arrow to the head. Can't do that if predefined classes had their way.

 

Really? Hmm, I wonder if a battlemage could do that? I know my Mystwalker could and capture it's soul to boot.