Skyrim isn't dumbed down. Purists are.

[HaikenEdge]

I must argue against the purists' responses:

Quest marker can be turned off.

Valid point.

 

There are a lot of creatures. Morrowind had more but there was a lot of basically the same thing.

Quantity =/= quality.

 

The quests aren't all repetitive: I've only had to go into 1 dungeon for quests, and ice don't lots.

How many questions have you done? A "dungeon" is every cave, ruin, dungeon, or keep the player has to go into to clear in order to (A) kill a target, or (B) acquire a specific item, and I've pretty much spent the majority of my game clearing said dungeons.

 

Stats: they're pointless. Nuff said.

Demonstrate how this is true. As a counterpoint, I'd use the slippery slope argument: say I agree stats are pointless; then surely, the logical next step would be that skills are pointless too, and everybody should just be able to do everything anyways. I mean, what's the point of indicating how strong, fast or tough a character is? I mean, it's just as pointless as indicating how good at weapons, armor or magic the same character is.

[lolozori]

Next bethesda game will be like Rage from ID and people will think they still play an RPG because they can choose their weapons and talk to people.

[CaptainChaos]

I have been playing computer and RPG games since the 1980s and I believe consoles have dumbed down combat, graphics and interfaces, although stories are usually left intact, which is important. However, all that said, Skyrim is a welcome streamlining of burdensome "gameable" systems like Oblivion, where you would be a Mage class in order to really be a warrior, so you could advance slowly and power level to the max. Ridiculous.

 

The Perk system here is brilliant. It permits you to really customize your character and give you something exciting to look forward. At 28th Level (mostly warrior type), I STILL am excited to get new Perks which on Master Level Difficulty, are absolutely necessary for survival. And even though my one handed weapon skill of 70 applies to all one handed weapons, no matter how different, I am specialized in maces, so why would i ever use a sword? to waste more perks on that? so, you do get specialized. Eventually, at 35th level, when i finally have some extra perks, I want to invest in Alteration - not b/c I am a wizard, but because I can get Magic Resistance? How cool is that? The spell trees are really different from one another and do not just making casting those schools of spells more cheaply but give you cooler abilities like conjuring 2 for 1 or doing more damage against undead. While I miss being able to make your own spells, perhaps it was just difficult to manage without it becoming way too powerful (like total invisibility or too much damage at once).

 

Anyway, most of my gripes, already have been addressed by mods - the replacing hard coded keys (STUPID BETHESDA! why let us remap ASD for movement but not for lockpicking?), the 2k graphics pack, bettering low res textures, etc. And that is the final and best laugh PC users have over consoles. Of course PC types still get more crashes, etc., but nothing in life is free...

[antonkr]

I must argue against the purists' responses:

Quest marker can be turned off.

There are a lot of creatures. Morrowind had more but there was a lot of basically the same thing.

The quests aren't all repetitive: I've only had to go into 1 dungeon for quests, and ice don't lots.

Stats: they're pointless. Nuff said.

Come back when you played the game for more than 2 hours. :hurr:

[abaris]

 

Stats: they're pointless. Nuff said.

 

For playing a RPG? You're serious.

 

Stats use to influence how well you're equipped for certain situations. I used to put a great deal into charisma because I liked to talk my way out. That's no longer possible and I can only guess that speechcraft seems to be some kind of substitute.

 

One can use a friendlier word than dumbing down, but since the OP has opened that particular can or wirms by throwing it at people who like more depth, I'd say its a perfect example of dumbing down. The more friendly term being used nowadays is streamlining and casual player, which always creates an image in my head: beer gobbling couch potato with pizza remnants all over their shirts.

[Element115]

I find it funny you didn't address any of the valid points made by people on here, that most of them collectively agree on " dumbing the game down".

 

Magic

 

Repetitive perks i.e magic schools top perks all the same. same for 1hand 2 hand and marksman.

 

enchantments

 

polearms

 

dungeons although improved, have not even met some modded dungeons from oblivion. I wanna see something that is pitch black more often, stuff that actually pops out at you. More confined spaces, id love to have to get down and crawl to make it through a small tunnel or passage way.

 

Controls and UI - need i explain why many want this changed first and foremost? why it has been simplified solely for console users?

 

My biggest gripe with skyrim is the controls and the UI, it just makes the game feel like a spinoff to pc just to get some sales. I can't bind my mouse 4 and 5 buttons to controls, um wth is that. why they have to have what button you need to push to do something in a menu, what happened to simple mouse clicks, i don't wanna see R to craft when that's not even the button i use to craft. I don't really wanna see any button controls past tutorials.

 

The second would have to be the fact that acrobatics is gone, and nothing really replaces it. I hate the fact that this game has so many mountains and yet i can not jump over a small rock. Give us a climb button for small stuff! why is it this was effectively mastered in a game like cod4 which is 4 years old!

[Shantih]

Stats: they're pointless. Nuff said.

Demonstrate how this is true. As a counterpoint, I'd use the slippery slope argument: say I agree stats are pointless; then surely, the logical next step would be that skills are pointless too, and everybody should just be able to do everything anyways. I mean, what's the point of indicating how strong, fast or tough a character is? I mean, it's just as pointless as indicating how good at weapons, armor or magic the same character is.

 

If you're looking for a demonstration here it is:

 

http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/464801-rpg-does-not-equal-numbers

 

By the way your logic is fallacious but I guess someone who likes to nitpick as much as you probably misses all the number crunching. ;)

 

There is nothing wrong with skills representing how good your character has become by training and practice. The possibility to increase Magicka, Health and Stamina insures that there is still room for development.

 

Stats can be artificially introduced to represent various elements. Stamina could be broken into two or three different "stats" for instance but that wouldn't make the game any deeper or any better.

 

Stats and skills were linked in Oblivion so much so that it actually makes sense to remove them. It could be said that the way stats and skills were linked in Oblivion is the element that made them redundant. Getting rid of them was only logical.

[HaikenEdge]

Stats: they're pointless. Nuff said.

Demonstrate how this is true. As a counterpoint, I'd use the slippery slope argument: say I agree stats are pointless; then surely, the logical next step would be that skills are pointless too, and everybody should just be able to do everything anyways. I mean, what's the point of indicating how strong, fast or tough a character is? I mean, it's just as pointless as indicating how good at weapons, armor or magic the same character is.

 

If you're looking for a demonstration here it is:

 

http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/464801-rpg-does-not-equal-numbers

 

By the way your logic is fallacious but I guess someone who likes to nitpick as much as you probably misses all the number crunching. ;)

 

There is nothing wrong with skills representing how good your character has become by training and practice. The possibility to increase Magicka, Health and Stamina insures that there is still room for development.

 

Stats can be artificially introduced to represent various elements. Stamina could be broken into two or three different "stats" for instance but that wouldn't make the game any deeper or any better.

 

Stats and skills were linked in Oblivion so much so that it actually makes sense to remove them. It could be said that the way stats and skills were linked in Oblivion is the element that made redundant. Getting rid of them was only logical.

Just because you don't like the argument, doesn't make it fallacious.

 

In the next game, it'll only be logical to remove skills too. I mean, these skills are artificially introduced anyways; what matters what my character's archery or stealth skill is, when, as a player, it all really depends on where you aim, or how well you stay out of shadows? I mean, what's the point of having crafting skills? With enough trial and error (and materials of course), even I can make sword in real-life, and I have absolutely no experience in how to make a sword in the first place. Or how about magic? What's the point of having skills for destruction or restoration? They're artificially introduced anyways, and the level of a spell might as well determine how effective it is.

 

To take it further, what's the point of Health? Players are going to reload the game when they die anyways, why not just skip that and let them live forever?

 

If you want to talk about artificially introduced number crunching, it can apply to any kind of numbers, including skills and stats people generally actually find useful. The point is, the label, "artificially introduced" is arbitrary, so why not just label every stat "artificially introduced" and end up with The Elder Scrolls: Rage?

[Herculine]

Next bethesda game will be like Rage from ID and people will think they still play an RPG because they can choose their weapons and talk to people.

 

Be careful what you wish for...

[duckdude]

Skyrim is in my opinion the best TES game, however there are some things from the other games i am missing:

 

-Armor slots like in Morrowind, the options there were plainly insane. Expecially from a modding perspective.

 

-Classes. I think that skyrim could have had a system where you could freely pick and change classes. the only difference the selection of class would do, is highlight where you should spend your perks, and perheps a small bonus. New system is great, and this is probably going to be included in a mod.

 

-UI more like Morrowind. Dont get me wrong i like the skyrim UI, but i would love an upgraded version of the Morrowind UI.

 

Other than this i feel skyrim is a major step forward for the TES series.