Imperial VS Stormcloak

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

Skyrim was always apart of the Empire. It was the biggest supporter of it and had great relations with it. But now half of Skyrim wants out.

 

The Empire turned a blind eye to the Nords, Redguards and Dunmer. During the Oblivion crisis the Empire withdrew all of its forces to Cyrodiil, abandoning Morrowind completely. House Redoran saved the Dunmer people during the Oblivion crisis (and the Argonian invasion) much like the Thalmor did in Summerset Isles. The Empire stayed in Skyrim and protected Dunmer refugees fleeing Morrowind through Dunmeth pass, using Windhelm as their capitol.

 

On the turning of the blind eye on the Nords and Redguards, The Great War - they sold Hammerfell and the Redguard people out. Abandoning them to fight their own fight. Yes some legionnaires stayed and helped but during the Signing of the White Gold Concordat they left Hammerfell to the wolves (wolves being the Thalmor)

 

Leaving the Nords, during The Great War the Empire withdrew all of its forces from Skyrim and other provinces to amplify their forces on Cyrodiil, leaving Skyrim nearly defenseless. This is shown as true due to the Markarth Incident.

 

The Empire allowed for its people to be killed for worshiping the very man who founded the Septim Empire. Talos, or Shor to the Nords. Thus becoming a near puppet to the Aldmeri Dominion. Not only is it turning its back on its him, but the allowance of the killings (Northwatch keep) is what pissed people off.

 

Civil Unrest. The Empire is experiencing internal strife due to drug lords and crime sweeping across Cyrodiil. As mentioned by many NPC's throughout Skyrim. Economic instability. The Empire is having to pay substantial tributes to the Aldmeri Dominion following the Signing of the Whit Gold Concordat. It is also having to try and rebuild the damaged tundra within Cyrodiil, repair the White Gold Tower, repair its broken, if not destroyed, Navy. Disbanding the Blades, the protectors of the Dragonborn Emperors. And now Titus Mede II is dead.

 

One of these many reasons would be enough to rebel.

 

Possible alliances can be formed between Skyrim and Hammerfell. Perhaps even Morrowind, but very very unlikely.

 

Edited for grammatical errors.

Edited March 20, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak

[Kursan]

This has been one of the more inspired and surprisingly civil discussions I have read on the Forums. I have never played the civil war quest yet because I could never decide which of the two was less corrupt. Eventually I think I will play both with different chars just to experience the various outcomes, but for now let me throw in another aspect that probably has not been addressed in great detail although I admit I have not yet read all of the 159 pages :blink:

 

The Thalmor are definitely the Nazis of Tamriel in their ambitions and attitude toward the other races, but just as in real life they are not a fair representation of their Nation only of the evil EVERY nation has the potential to become. So not every Altmer in Skyrim is necessarily on their side; from what I read in Lore the Thalmor are more like an extremist movement that rose to power within the Aldmeri Dominion.

 

So to mix things up a bit for the first time in any Elder Scrolls game I am playing as a high elf and I think that she will eventually side with the empire in the civil war.

 

The reason for this is not that the empire is necessarily the "just cause", the Stormcloaks have every rightful reason to want out and have their own rule, (even though they are racist bigots) but a more united empire means a more stable and stronger empire that checks the advance of the Thalmor.

Since peace and prosperity for all races is what my char is mostly interested in, that is her choice even though unpleasant political compromises have to be made and clearly not every action by the empire in the past was smart or righteous.

The alternative is to gain short lived personal freedom for the Nords and playing into the hands of overwhelming tyranny over all.

I find also some perverse pleasure in having the Dragonborn arise from the very people both sides in the conflict loathe. :devil:

[RighthandofSithis]

The reason for this is not that the empire is necessarily the "just cause", the Stormcloaks have every rightful reason to want out and have their own rule, (even though they are racist bigots) but a more united empire means a more stable and stronger empire that checks the advance of the Thalmor.

Since peace and prosperity for all races is what my char is mostly interested in, that is her choice even though unpleasant political compromises have to be made and clearly not every action by the empire in the past was smart or righteous.

The alternative is to gain short lived personal freedom for the Nords and playing into the hands of overwhelming tyranny over all.

I find also some perverse pleasure in having the Dragonborn arise from the very people both sides in the conflict loathe. :devil:

 

I have a summery on the previous page explaining why I feel this is wrong.

 

Peace and prosperity impossible in a semi-feudal world. Class interests and all that.

[TheLoreSeeker]

It is clear that the Empire of the Septims is no longer what it used to be....and it is also clear that the Thalmor pose a large threat to anyone as individuals.

Change is required...and truthfully, more autonomy for the provinces would probably be better for the people of the provinces.

 

BUT if the Stormcloaks force the Legion out....then Cyrodiil will most definitely fall to the Dominion. Once Cyrodiil falls...who will be left to oppose the Dominion from conquering Skyrim as well? The Nords don't seem too keen on asking for outside aid from the Bretons or Orsinium or Hammerfell....and whether or not they would be capable of standing against the combined forces of the Isles, Valenwod, Elsweyr, AND the newly conquered Imperial province...is questionable.

 

Wouldn't something like diplomatic unity be the best case?...especially now the Titus Mede II is dead?

 

But then...diplomacy is difficult when the races have so many issues with eachother.

Edited March 20, 2013 by TheLoreSeeker

[sisterof]

Remember Hammerfell stood against the Dominion alone, and prevailed.
Cyrodiil would probably have a better chance if so much of their troops wasn't in Skyrim to begin with. They have all borders open. They should focus on that.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

I have explained before why Skyrim could stand on its own, easily.

 

Also Galmar even mentions attempting to get aid from High Rock, so the Nords arent to proud to ask for help.

Edited March 20, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak

[TheLoreSeeker]

I would be open to actual discussion about this topic...but I have seen too many topic arguments about this kind of thing. I have a hard time discussing the civil war and potential benefits of either side to Skyrim with people who have already committed themselves to one side of the argument. Its impossible for people like that to see things with an unbiased view.

So although I can see you have definitely done your research and are probably well informed on the subject; I can already tell that there is no point in discussing this topic with you Ulfric, because you have already made your decision and nothing I say will be able to deter you from that view.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

Yes, most all of us here have taken either one side or the other. At least the major players, like myself and RightHandofSithis, Kayyleb, Kradus, TheStoneFist, Impersitan, and a few others. We have taken up with one or the other and been bickering points back and forth until one side gives up. Ive been here a long time.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

If someone can show me a good reason as to why the Empire is right, then Ill think about switching, but so far that hasn't happened.

[TheLoreSeeker]

Then I suppose that the better way for me to go about this is not by debating you but instead by tossing questions your way.

 

You say that the Thalmor threat to Skyrim can be fought off easily, BUT would you agree with me that the Thalmor threat to Tamriel is also a major problem? Or is your viewpoint one of "as long as they stay out of Skyrim, I'm fine with them"?

 

And if you do agree with me, do you believe that the Thalmor threat is one that won't be ended until someone goes on the offensive against the Dominion in the Sumerset Isles? And is it your belief that Skyrim alone would be capable of fighting off a Tamriel controlled by the Dominion?

 

For example, if Hammerfell, Highrock, and Argonia all fell to the Dominion AFTER they take Cyrodiil, would you feel that the Jarls would still be capable of holding them off?

Edited March 21, 2013 by TheLoreSeeker