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Imperial VS Stormcloak

Jackal2233

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LoneLycan Apprentice

LoneLycan

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My last 20-25 Notifications.. THANK U GUYSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!..

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Edited by LoneLycan
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RighthandofSithis Rising Star

RighthandofSithis

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As for Highrock....I was under the impression that there were only 4 kingdoms since the warp in the west occurred; Sentinel, Daggerfall, Wayrest , and Orsinium.

 

And...Sentinel is in Hammerfell...

 

The Warp in the West was based in the Illiac Bay (which is why it included Sentinel).

 

Regardless, after the Stormcrown interregnum, it would be inevitable that all the gains made by Uriel (including the Warp in the West) were completly undone.

 

As for Orsinium, it was sacked in the early 4th era. According to a loading screen in Skyrim, it was rebuilt in the mountains between Skyrim and hammerfell (and I doubt it it is Dushnik Yal).

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Kayyyleb Collaborator

Kayyyleb

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Blargh. I sided with the Imperials but killed the Emperor to fulfill the contract for Dark Brotherhood. The Empire as a whole is alright. The ruler and his homies are asshats.

I vote Tullius for emperor.

 

Oh...I guess it doesn't work like that. I might've actually joined the Stormcloaks if they were implementing a proper democratic government...but trading one dictatorship for another doesn't solve anything in the long run. At least with a democracy you can vote for the asshat you want in charge. :/

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TheLoreSeeker Collaborator

TheLoreSeeker

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So I just read through Ocato's entire post and something hit me.

So the Void Nights happened for unexplained reasons right...and the moons disappeared for 2 years or something like that?
This caused the Khajiit to freak out and side with the Dominion when the moons came back, since the Dominion claimed they "brought them back".

If that wasn't just an outright lie on the Dominions part....we're dealing with POWERFUL magic, beyond just simple Altmeri skill. Now if they DID bring them back...isn't it also possible that they made them vanish in the first place, knowing it would rock the Khajiit?

And if they DID make the moons vanish....how did they do that? I'm wondering if there is something even more powerful behind the curtains of the Dominion than what we know about. In which case, that's a game changer and facing them head on could very well be suicide.

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LithiumPower Enthusiast

LithiumPower

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Hi Stormhammer81.

 

@TheLoreSeeker,

 

The Dominion claim they restored the moons using never before seen Dawn magic. But regardless, if they had access to any deus ex machina my question is - why did they lose the Great War? I've heard they could teleport or levitate their entire armies, that they have airfaring ships and a juggernaut navy and they can vanish the moons and restore them with a snap of their fingers. If all that is true, If they could teleport their armies en masse or even their generals - why did Naarifin hang from the WGT with birds picking at his corpse for weeks? Why did they sign the Treaty of Stros M'Kai and withdraw from Hammerfell without achieving any of their goals? Why resort to underhanded tactics, espionage and politics to gain a foothold in Skyrim? Why is Ancarion mucking about in the freezing, icy northern coast of Solstheim desperately trying to find a source for Stalhrim? Surely if they have access to fantastic magi-tech we can scarcely imagine, they wouldn't need to be so mundane.

 

A lot of this I feel is propaganda to make themselves seem stronger and more powerful than they actually are in order to demoralise their enemies. As for the moons, they have access to decent illusion magic, perhaps they used that to influence the Khajiit. Maybe something else was at work there. It's impossible to say.

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RighthandofSithis Rising Star

RighthandofSithis

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I've been an Elder Scrolls fan for sometime now and have finally come to a conclusion, thought I'd share it on here...

 

I think many of the negative points about the Empire have been "exaggerated" in favor of one man's personal Quest for Retribution and Disdain for his own country because the majority of it's citizens do not willingly follow his lead. Because the Stormcloaks would have to deal with the same issues, like for example, if Ulfric wins and Titus Mede II visits the city, they don't execute him, they put up with him out of concern for all of Cyrodil being stirred up against Skyrim. Right there, you can see it's no different from how the Empire puts up with the Thalmor and it also sheds light on the fact that Cyrodil is strong enough by itself to pose a serious threat to Skyrim. Same difference. I'm afraid in the end, Ulfric and the Stormcloaks will amount to just another ruling body that will make the same mistakes and the only real difference is, the Empire can still unite everyone under someone other than Titus Mede II. It's true Ulfric reached out to Highrock but they turned him down cold. I also like what TheLoreSeeker had said (well actually all of it and most of Kursans post :wink: ) about how the other Provinces wouldn't be too happy with the Stormcloaks for collapsing the Empire, as Ulfric said himself that Highrock has never had a problem with the Empire and the other Provinces (including Skyrim - Refer to Sybil's speech) do appear to benefit from the Imperial System. Highrock has already shown for the Stormcloaks to ally with anyone, it's going to be a hard sell, probably because of Ulfric's hard-handed approach to dealing with things and an Empire which, regardless of Ulfric's opinion or people's personal bias, has proven itself both strong and reliable for at least the last 3000 years?

 

During this time, the Empire has seen it's fair share of enemies, including the Dominion and it's fair share of Ulfric's. Empire always sorts it's sh*t out in the end.

 

Would also like to point out, Ulfric doesn't change Skyrim's Gov. In this respect, Ulfric is not a Revolutionary at all, he's what they call a Usurper. Ulfric's not trying to change the system, he just believes that he deserves to be King, which is a stated goal from the beginning of the game if you listen to Ralof closely.

 

 

Please read the link 'Arguements for the Stormcloaks' In Lithium's signature for the most part of it (Stuff like the state of the Empire, Skyrim's agriculture, and the opinions from other provinces).

 

Now, lets remember that if Ulfric was so hard headed, he wouldn;t have asked High Rock for assistance in the first place. Why did they refuse? Perhaps they were to disunited to reply, perhaps they genuinely supported the Empire, who knows.

 

And remember that it is suggested in game that an alliance between Hammerfell and Skyrim is possible, and that even less likely alliance have occurred (such as the Ebonheart Pact).

 

However, on the topic of how Revolutionary Ulfric is, that is a good question. We can't doubt that the Empire is facing a revolutionary situation (which I can expand on if you want me to). However, a revolution requires a fundamental shift in society. Ulfric does effectively defend the Nordic Aristocracy against the imperial aristocracy, and rids skyrim of the Empire.

 

But ultimately, Skyrim's institutions remain in tact. My analysis of Ulfric as a revolutionary may have been incorrect, although i wouldn't call him a simple usurper.

 

I may have to think about this longer.

 

Also, Lithium, I'm not sure if accusing every new Imperial of being Stormhammer is a good idea.

Edited by RighthandofSithis
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HighkingUlfricStormcloak Collaborator

HighkingUlfricStormcloak

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@Chanceller Ocato (Stormhammer81, Bigmagy1981, GeneralTullius) - its you, im sure of it. You argue the same way. Boasts and objections to attempt to oppose everyone before they reply.

The Empire never fought for Skyrim. It fought to preserve the Empire. Cyrodiil specifically (judging by how quickly they abandoned every other province during the war - including Skyrim) You see the Nords of Skyrim were and are the blood of the Empire, so it wasn't the Empire that saved everyone. It was the Nords, time and time again the Nords have saved the Empire, not the other way around. And Judging by movement of NPC's isnt really a good argument. The Empire allows for the Thalmor to be in Skyrim - I know this because it's obvious. The Stormcloaks - True Sons and Daughters of Skyrim - aren't all a bunch of Thalmor agents. Avultstein and Thorald Greymayne are perfect examples of this. They are angry Nords who oppose the Thalmor and Empire. "Skyrim is Nord land, and we ought to rule it."

A lot of pro Imperials love the quote "What those Rebels like to forget is that the Empire is the only thing keeping the Dominion out of Skyrim." But by analyzing the Empire's actions within Skyrim the quote would be more accurate and truthful to say "What those Rebels like to forget is that the Empire is the only thing keeping the dominion in Skyrim." After the Stormcloaks win in Skyrim you no longer see justicars (However its spelled) roaming Skyrims roads and the Thalmor in Markarth are gone. So I think its obvious that the Nords of the Stormcloak army don't openly allow the Thalmor in Skyrim.

We've made it obvious that the Empire will die. You're in denial about this if you have read all the posts. There is no hope for the Empire, none whatsoever. Economic instability, civil unrest, crime, famine, assassinations, everything that spells the end of Empires.

Edited by HighkingUlfricStormcloak
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LithiumPower Enthusiast

LithiumPower

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There are a couple of points I'd like to bring to attention regarding Ulfric being more democratic, there really isn't a lot to go on but they may be considered a hint toward a change.

 

1. Ulfric's insistence on the moot instead of simply assuming the title of High King himself after the Battle. Granted, we all know he's going to be elected but there's something to be said for his choosing to go through the formality. It lends strength and credence to the institution and at the very least allows the Jarls a platform to re-affirm support or withhold it.

 

2. Ulfric's stormcloaks aren't an invading army of men disconnected from their charges, they are drawn from the people. For instance, Ralof is appointed commander in Fort Neugrad and he originally belongs to Riverwood. He's not an occupier he's a son of the soil, so if there is resistance to Ulfric from that area and he attempts to crush that resistance using his men stationed at Neugrad, Ralof would resist marching against his own family and friends.

 

3. Jarl Vignar mentions that the people of Whiterun elected him to replace Balgruuf. Ulfric himself implies that the people of Windhelm affirmed him as Jarl when he returned after his imprisonment. There isn't any more solid reference it but it seems that the appointment of Jarls and the High King through the moot is traditionally not a direct hereditary claim but there is some participation by the people. This was a practice the Empire had been interfering with, which the stormcloaks have restored.

 

4. Jarl Sorli the Builder. She's the stormcloak replacement for Idgrod. Firstly, she's someone whose built herself up from scratch - working her way up from managing a mining town to managing the whole hold - she further declares her intention to eventually move to Riften and fix the city's problems once she's distinguished herself in Morthal. Further her dialogue implies she's been working hard and is glad her public service is finally being recognised. She doesn't hire a steward because she's hands on in her administration and spends time outside the Jarl's residence getting in touch with her constituency.

 

None of this is to suggest that the stormcloaks are going to usher in a new era of universal franchise and constitutional governance with civil rights and the welfare state but I do think the Stormcloaks are going to be more in touch with the people than an emperor sitting in Cyrodiil who might as well be on one of the moons as Dengeir puts it.

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