Imperial VS Stormcloak

[Deleted5388374User]

Kinda wish you could, during Season Unending, throw the Thalmor Dossiers on the table and show how both sides are being played, and say you'll help them fight back the Thalmor once Alduin is done (which would carry quite a bit of weight if you've completed Dragonborn).

 

For characters that just want to get rid of the Thalmor, imo the Empire is a slightly better choice since having the Dragonborn on their side may give them the kick they need to start building up again. Frail as the Empire is, I feel they have a better chance at completely wiping out the Thalmor across the continent. Stormcloaks with the Dragonborn may be better at ensuring Skyrim's safety, but fighting across all of Tamriel to Summerset Isle will still be a hell of a task, especially with Cyrodill right in the middle. Then again this is based on incomplete info regarding the state of the other provinces. Unfortunately the game doesn't allow us to gather much canon info; even what the Dragonborn him/herself has experienced beyond the borders of Skyrim is left up to our imaginations.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

Please read Lithium Flowers documents in his signature. It will help brief you on where we are on the topic.

 

And thanks Lithium, that dialogue is awesome. Any location given or is it random? Like you said they never encounter each other so . . . .

 

And for all those GoT fans. Does anyone else think that Jon is Azor Ahai rather than Stannis? I think so . . . and due to the ending of book five, which pissed me off, I think that Melisandre will help Jon is his current situation. But It may just be me trying to save my favorite character.

Edited March 26, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

For WTFus - If I sound like an ass, sorry. Its nice to have a new voice around these parts. Welcome to the club.

Just by having a Dragonborn on the side of the Empire doesnt mean things will get fixed. The irreversible collapse has taken its first irreversible steps. Plus the same thing can be said for the Stormcloaks. "With the Dragonborn on their side they will be unstoppable against the Dominion."

The Empire may have more troops, barely, but its not a numbers game. Its tactics. The Empire showed that with its best tactics they had to win back a city lost due to previous tactics used. The Empire was too weak before the Great War, as stated by Legates and Generals. Now with all its problems it has no way to recover, it simply cant.

The Nords show that, in history, they are great tacticians and warriors. All the Stormcloaks are Nords, with the exception of your character, if you choose to not be a Nord. Diversity doesnt matter. The Nord army has shown that while being surrounded it can soundly defeat an enormous foe. Thus past wars with the Aldmeri forces in the past. Also consider that Bretons from Morthal have joined the Stormcloaks, so they arent all Nords but a vast, vast majority are.

Also the Nords are planning to invade Alinor, so they will take the fight to the AD, not just secure Skyrim. They will secure Skyrim however but then they will destroy the sworn enemy. The Nords hate the AD, more than anyone else. Within the Lore of TES the Nords and Elves are bitter enemies and hate each other with a passion. The Empire has already succumb to the whim of the elves once, who's to say they wont do it again.

Edited March 26, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak

[LithiumPower]

@HKUS, It's ambient dialogue, to be exchanged randomly when they run into each other which they never do.

 

@WTFus - Hi! Don't let us intimidate you! I put together all our main arguments/counter arguments for both sides in a handy document that I'd invite you to skim through so we're all on the same page and we'd love to discuss/debate any points you like. Welcome to the thread!

[TheLoreSeeker]

 

Also the Nords are planning to invade Alinor, so they will take the fight to the AD, not just secure Skyrim. They will secure Skyrim however but then they will destroy the sworn enemy. The Nords hate the AD, more than anyone else. Within the Lore of TES the Nords and Elves are bitter enemies and hate each other with a passion. The Empire has already succumb to the whim of the elves once, who's to say they wont do it again.

 

Thats always what worries me. They see "the elves" as the enemy. When in fact that could turn a war against a government into a war against a species.

[LithiumPower]

There are more well integrated and affluent altmer in Stormcloak holds than any other type of elf. Most resentment against elvenkind in Windhelm is directed toward the dunmer for reasons unrelated to the Great War. The guards and citizens of Windhelm speak fondly of Nurelion, the resident Altmer Alchemist, Niranye a fresh immigrant has managed to adjust. Anuriel, another Altmer is Laila Law-giver's steward. Apart from that Malor Seloth (a dunmer!) is Korrir's steward. Wylandriah a bosmer is court mage to Laila-Lawgiver. The great irony is that more mer are represented in the courts of stormcloak holds than are in imperial holds unless you count Thalmor.

[RighthandofSithis]

For WTFus - If I sound like an ass, sorry. Its nice to have a new voice around these parts. Welcome to the club.

 

Just by having a Dragonborn on the side of the Empire doesnt mean things will get fixed. The irreversible collapse has taken its first irreversible steps. Plus the same thing can be said for the Stormcloaks. "With the Dragonborn on their side they will be unstoppable against the Dominion."

 

The Empire may have more troops, barely, but its not a numbers game. Its tactics. The Empire showed that with its best tactics they had to win back a city lost due to previous tactics used. The Empire was too weak before the Great War, as stated by Legates and Generals. Now with all its problems it has no way to recover, it simply cant.

 

Welcome to WTFus. Its nice having a new face around, and some new arguments.

 

In the interests of neutrality, in the Great war, we need to remember that the Nords actual did use Imperial tactics (being part of the Legion). That said, it does prove the Nords are a formidable people (in general), and with numerous ex-legionaires (and presumably ex legion officers) in the Stormcloaks, and after 500 years of Imperial rule, one would assume that the Nords have adopted some Imperial Tactics.

 

Regardless, while tactics are severely important, I think that, short of an alliance with hammerfell, there needs to be a change in strategy. The EMpire had proven that it is unable of combating the Dominion, so an offensive strategy in the short term would be pushing it. I feel that the Stormcloaks can, and should, exploit Skyrim's natural defensibility to focus on a Defensive Strategy, particularly with Bruma and the logical spread of revolutionary sentiments and action amongst its local Nords (and bruma's strategic position).

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

There are more well integrated and affluent altmer in Stormcloak holds than any other type of elf. Most resentment against elvenkind in Windhelm is directed toward the dunmer for reasons unrelated to the Great War. The guards and citizens of Windhelm speak fondly of Nurelion, the resident Altmer Alchemist, Niranye a fresh immigrant has managed to adjust. Anuriel, another Altmer is Laila Law-giver's steward. Apart from that Malor Seloth (a dunmer!) is Korrir's steward. Wylandriah a bosmer is court mage to Laila-Lawgiver. The great irony is that more mer are represented in the courts of stormcloak holds than are in imperial holds unless you count Thalmor.

 

 

Yes, I agree. When I say elves I mean the Thalmor, I should have been more specific. The Nords have a respect for elves that are willing to work and dont think themselves above everyone else.

 

We have to remember that Tamriel is the place that all races originated. Men and Mer alike. They migrated to other places and have returned. Tamriel is foretold to be the place of final battle between the elven gods and the gods of mankind. Shor vs Akotosh. Thats why I see the banning of Talos as such a big deal, he mantled Lorkhan and remade Shor, the ninth divine. Thus why the elves seek to eradicate his worship.

 

So in a sense it is a fight between races, and considering the term "race" carries a lot more weight in the TES world compared to our own.

 

RHoS. -

 

I wish that were true, using Skyrim's terrain as a defense but Galmar says "Then we will send our Armies to Summerset Isles, to show those pointy eared bastards that not every man is fit to be their slave."

 

Which makes sense, a surprise attack on Alinor makes sense strategically but I wish the same as you.

 

I believe that due to the AD's hatred of the Empire it will attempt another fight with the Empire. So that only further supports our argument that the Empire will be wiped from Tamriel. And with a Nordic invasion of Alinor it will catch (hopefully) the Dominion off guard, they have their forces focused in Valenwood and would need to move their forces back into Alinor and open a border with Cyrodiil. Thus causing a moral boost to the Nords and deplete the fatigue and strength of the elves.

 

Now, does anyone know the terrain of Alinor? I imagine it to be relatively flat, or hilly, tall grass, long empty fields that are fertile. But I have no clue really.

Edited March 26, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak

[RighthandofSithis]

 

 

RHoS. -

 

I wish that were true, using Skyrim's terrain as a defense but Galmar says "Then we will send our Armies to Summerset Isles, to show those pointy eared bastards that not every man is fit to be their slave."

 

Which makes sense, a surprise attack on Alinor makes sense strategically but I wish the same as you.

 

I'd imagine the Stormcloaks would quickly find that attacking the Dominion is impossible, or at least immediately. That is, though, assuming that Skyrim is left alone, without any allies.

 

Beside, Ulfric states in his victory speech that Skyrim must prepare for an invasion, either from the Empire, or from the Dominion. Naturally that would mean preparing defences.

 

Although, that statement does further suggest that instead of Cyrodiil all falling to the Dominion, Skyrim would have an interest in taking Northern Cyrodiil.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

I love Bruma, so I love that idea.