darthsloth74 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 With my first character I sided with the Stormcloaks because I agreed they had the right to worship Talos, big mistake. Total rascists. I hated the way they treated the Dunmer and Argonians and I seriously felt I'd joined the bad guys. I've just recently done the Imperial Legion quest line with a new character which left me with a much better feeling. Even though the Thalmor are overseeing the Imperials, a stronger Empire means those Dominian scum will eventually get whats coming to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorak Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 It hugely amuses me that racism is being considered a greater flaw than torture chambers, unjust executions and being, y'know, a foreign oppressor who is in turn the puppet of a foreign oppressor intending to explicitly crush your very culture. A whole bunch of Nords fighting for...uh...the land of the Nords...in the face of two foreign invaders, and being a bit hotheadedly zealous in their resurgence, well that's just ridiculous! They are clearly monsters! That's not something that happens in every single war ever fought in human hist-oh. Oh. Right. It actually is. I'll remember that. The next time I go to Windhelm I'll take the racist guy and drag him into a torture chamber before an entertaining afternoon execution, because they and Ulfric can be a bit of an overbearing goon. That'll learn them! Viva la Thalmor puppets! We'll ignore Ralof....not caring where you're from. We'll ignore the murderously zealous Galmar Stone-Fist....ultimately not caring where you're from as long as you're willing to fight for Skyrim. We'll ignore Thorleif...uh...still not caring where you're from. And Wuunferth. And...everyone else. Um....yeah. Ulfric and two drunken idiots can shove it! Wooooo, Empire! Yeah! We will of course, entirely ignore Orcs telling me to shove off and stay out of their Orc-only clubhouse until I do stuff for them, just like the Stormcloaks seem to expect. Because they're orcs I guess. Maybe it's because they're green. Is green allowed to get away with that? Probably. Or possibly a pointy ear thing. Maybe they're just not important enough. Like Bretons, who are hilariously racist to Orcs. And the Dunmer, who just finished up getting mashed by the Argonians for millenia of cartoonish racism. And the constant Bosmer/Khajiit thing. Hm. As it turns out, everyone is racist. Not just a little bit, but a lot. Slavery and war racist. Maybe it's because Nords don't have fur and tails when they're being racist like everyone else.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthsloth74 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Khorak: True you make many valid points. I guess I'm biased because I was a die hard Imperial Legion member back when I player Morrowind. Actually that was another foreign occupation back then too. Ah who cares, Hail the legion, for Cyrodiil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhpd2 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 The stormcloaks are fighting to maintain their culture, their traditions, their religion etc... they are basicly fighting to maintain their identity but the empire/thalmor denies them that. This is something that affects ALL the nords, racism and such is only practiced by certain individuals. I think that is a fair enough reason to choose the stormcloaks over the empire, if only Ulfric wasn't such a dick :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Ulfric is the reason Nordic heritage is being threatend. If he didn;t kick up such a stink about the Talos thing, the Empire never would have had to crack down. Ulfric also argues on the basis of a promise made to him by a desperate, deposed Jarl for assisting in putting down, guess what, the exact same type of rebellion Ulfric now leads. The Forsworn had been trampled on by the Nords for thousands of years, had their culture and heritage run into the ground by their Nord 'betters' and served as little more than slaves within their own lands. Then they managed to fight for their freedom and rights, but were put down by those who would later become the Stormcloaks on the basis that Markarth and the Rift were 'Nord lands'. The exact same logic applies to the Empire's campaign in Skyrim. Skyrim is an Imperial province, and ALWAYS has been. In fact, it's the birthplace of both Empires. Arguing that they deserve freedom from the 'oppression of the Empire', and Empire they founded, while at the same time demanding the oppression and sometimes destruction of the natives of the lands they lay claim to is utter hipocracy, and invalidates any ethical claim the Stormcloaks have. And Khorak, if you want to talk about 'unjust execution' how about the whole Markarth Incedent? Ulfric and his future Stormcloaks executed hundreds of innocent people, not because of their association with the Forsworn, but because they didn't die fighting against the Foresworn. And while you make a big deal about how you are accepted by the Stormcloaks in escaping Helgen, and later by many others in Windhelm, what about the Imperial Officer who fights with you in Helgen. You sharre a bond of comroderie with the Stormcloaks, being captives together, but that Officer stands by you none the less, despite the fact duty demands he run you through. He gives you a second chance, which shows a greater degree of nobility than anything the Stormcloaks offer. And the Legion just as redily accepts you, even if you are upfront about your involvement in Helgen. As such, your entire arguement is mooted because both sides show the acceptance of a stranger, and in fact the Empire accepts a known convict. Racism is rampant in the world. We know this. We've known this for years. It can't be used to judge each faction (except maybe the Thalmor who base their entire society on it). All you can judge is the actions and ethics of each. No matter how you look at it, the Empire comes out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldspice2625 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Let me also remind you that the second in command, Rikke, is a NORD and she says to your face that there are daughters and sons of Skyrim that LOVE skyrim and are HARDCORE LEGION because they see the BIGGER picture. One province can't beat another easily, but six provinces beating up on one fiesty aldmeri dominion will be very good odds... that's what they are trying to get at. Who cares if Ulfric is Patton in Tamriel? It doesn't matter because he fights for a NORD skyrim, not a MULTICULTURAL skyrim. Adrienne... who's been a faithful citizen of skyrim... will only have business because her husband is Nordic... if the empire rules in skyrim, that won't happen. Arcadia, who's lived there for over two decades will be ousted just because she is an Imperial. If you are a nord, great, skyrim could use Ulfric... if you are NOT BIASED and have logic as well as humility, the Empire, WHILE FLAWED... at least accepts everyone in their laws, they may do some dirty dealings, but they aren't going to favor one over the other because they are all united... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uruku7 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I first joined the Stormcloaks. Ulfric looks cooler than General MArconomacaroniwhatever, and he sounds like the Alien Bounty Hunter from X-Files. Poor reasons, sure, but both sides seem awful. RP-wise, my character just doesn't care. Re-rolled and doing Imperial now just to play it the other way. Seems nearly the same so-far quest wise. I still think the Imperials are stuck up greasy bastards, but Ulfric is just a power-hungry cliche. It seems the man he killed(what awesome shout is that, anyway??) Torryg, even liked Ulfric. So at this point, I see the Imperials as the lesser of two evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someonenoone11 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Just a quick question because my Jarl thread got 0 replies, if the stormcloaks win, what happens to Elisif? Does she remain Jarl or is replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco856 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I actually see the Stormcloaks as the lesser of two evils, and will hope for a mod that lets me really unite Skyrim for everyone by ousting Ulfric after the Battle of Solitude and putting the right Jarls on the right thrones. And making a worthy Nord the High King or Queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CemeteryN7 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 The racism, yes everyone is a little racist to another in The Elder Scrolls, but the Nords (or Stormcloak/Supporter Nords) hate everyone. That's an entirely new degree. But back to the main problem at hand. If you listen to Hadvar (the Legion guy that helps you) in the beginning, when you go into the torture chamber he specifically says that they wish they didn't have to have those. Meaning that the Thalmor using the Empire as their puppets, forced them into doing so. I'll agree the Empire are puppets at this point, but as someone already stated, they are at a ceasefire, once the Empire is strong enough, bye bye Thalmore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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