Imperial VS Stormcloak

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

I want to apologize for the <PNH> crap.

 

I tried to edit it but it stayed in. Not sure why.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Stormcloak117

[StormHammer81]

@ilikecheese1337

 

LoL... Is u serious? Really you think that's a solution... I LOVE Winterhold it's my favorite place in the world for my Orc to hang out and go hunting. And I also know how much everyone in that hold hates the Mage's College there, blames them for the Great Disaster which tore that hold apart. Another example of more division in Skyrim.

 

@Sithis

 

The problem is Skyrim would be on it's own. So, if after they leave the Empire, let's say the Imperials go into their fields and light everything on fire, then start throwing down salt. And they raid, just before leaving salt the fields, which is exactly how the Romans did business. Even if Skyrim had enough land to grow food, they would still not produce enough food. Still need imports, even now they rely on East Empire Company like everyone else. There won't be a nice cushy "buffer-zone" between Skyrim and the Empire. This includes HighRock and Morrowind. That's their #1 problem they'll be making entirely too many enemies on ALL SIDES. Ulfric's kingdom will not be secure. Furthermore, I *highly* doubt Sebille would lie over food shortages. How long has she been in the Solitude court again? She really seemed like she loved Torygg and she loves Skyrim.

 

Ultimately, Ulfric is going to run his mouth long enough and kill just enough Legionaries to send the Empire over the edge. Things are bad enough now and weren't that bad before, I can only imagine how much worse it would get. Especially with no one knowing when or how the Thalmor will make their move.

Edited February 24, 2013 by StormHammer81

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

Like I have said 100 times. (actually like 3 times). Skyrim can easily support itself.

Skyrim currently has enough capability to support itself and so far the Mede Empire acts nothing like the Roman Empire ever did. Im not dismissing the possibility that they might try such a thing but the fact stands currently that Skyrim can quite easily support itself.

In Skyrim currently I have not heard once, anything about food problems except within Solitude. No one relies on the East Empire company but rather they enjoy its existence. They arent relying on it otherwise they wouldnt be in the predicament they are in when you arrive to help them. The level of trade has decreased rather to the contrary belief that the Nords need it to be open. Which would cause an increase in shipping needs.

So far I see no reason why Skyrim supposedly relies on Cyrodiil for anything other than a southern border.

Skyrim doesnt need to worry about the Dunmer considering their current situation, the Dunmer cant handle another war right now and if they could it would be targeted at the Argonians rather than the Nords.

Highrock wont bother Skyrim to much. The Stormcloaks show they can handle the Forsworn and have veterans including Ulfric who have fought them before.

Cyrodiil after losing Skyrim as a province wont attempt another invasion because as stated before their reinforcements are currently on the Border with the dominion.

Hammerfell and Skyrim will probably form an alliance as I have stated before. Dialogue in game states that it can happen and I see no reason why they shouldnt.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Stormcloak117

[RighthandofSithis]

@ilikecheese1337

 

LoL... Is u serious? Really you think that's a solution... I LOVE Winterhold it's my favorite place in the world for my Orc to hang out and go hunting. And I also know how much everyone in that hold hates the Mage's College there, blames them for the Great Disaster which tore that hold apart. Another example of more division in Skyrim.

 

@Sithis

 

The problem is Skyrim would be on it's own. So, if after they leave the Empire, let's say the Imperials go into their fields and light everything on fire, then start throwing down salt. And they raid, just before leaving salt the fields, which is exactly how the Romans did business. Even if Skyrim had enough land to grow food, they would still not produce enough food. Still need imports, even now they rely on East Empire Company like everyone else. There won't be a nice cushy "buffer-zone" between Skyrim and the Empire. This includes HighRock and Morrowind. That's their #1 problem they'll be making entirely too many enemies on ALL SIDES. Ulfric's kingdom will not be secure. Furthermore, I *highly* doubt Sebille would lie over food shortages. How long has she been in the Solitude court again? She really seemed like she loved Torygg and she loves Skyrim.

 

Ultimately, Ulfric is going to run his mouth long enough and kill just enough Legionaries to send the Empire over the edge. Things are bad enough now and weren't that bad before, I can only imagine how much worse it would get. Especially with no one knowing when or how the Thalmor will make their move.

And if the Stormcloaks use the same scorched earth tactics? Beside, we have no evidence that the Empire actually used such tactics (particularly when half of Skyrim, including its most fertile part, were Stormcloak territory to start with).

 

And I never said anyone lied about food shortages, simply that, in light of the extensive farming activity in Skyrim, that she may be referring to food shortages caused by the war (as she does not say 'Skyrim cannot feed itself', only that the food aid is valuable, and when a war is on, food aid is always valuable [and she may be intentionally trying to make that misconception]).

 

And in fact, as stated above, the East Empire Company was nearly closed until the player came along. And just because Skyrim leaves the Empire doesn't mean they don;t do business with the EEC (As Vitoria states).

 

And again, should I mention the likely Redguard-Hammerfell alliance? Do I need to explain the background to that logic? Morrowind is ruined, it couldn't attack Skyrim if it wanted to. And the Empire could try and reclaim Skyrim, but how will that leave the situation in Cyrodiil, and how long will it last?

Edited February 24, 2013 by RighthandofSithis

[fraquar]

If the Empire lose Skyrim, there is no more "Empire". An Empire suggests there is subordinate states that make it up and there are none left once they lose Skyrim.

 

The only real question would be how would the Stormcloak regime handle the transition of Nord Imperial soldiers laying down their arms. That would be the real test, because slaughtering them or imprisoning them isn't an option. All that would be is the same alienation that the Empire has already displayed that led to it's demise.

 

This "scorched earth" scenario assumes the vast majority of the Imperial Army in Skyrim (which are Nords) would participate......... Boy, if you wanted to drive the final nail in the Empire that would be exactly how you'd do it - asking Nords to destroy their own homeland.

[StormHammer81]

@fraquar

 

You guys are so funny sometimes. And fraquar, you have no clue what I mean by "scorched earth".

 

My rule is this, if people make no effort to understand me or my cause (in this case the Empire) then I have no need to explain anything to them and find it more entertaining to just let them talk in circles. That said, I have truly tried to understand the Stormcloaks and where Ulfric is coming from.

 

I have yet to meet (1) Stormcloak willing to do the same for the Empire.

 

Whenever it might be that you guys are ready to come down from your High ground and meet me face to face, then we'll talk. Until then, I guess you'll just have to keep beating a dead horse and utterly failing at comprehending my argument.

 

I quite honestly could care less about Religion in general, I honor God with my heart and with my actions. Empire is saying don't honor Talos with your words. Is that so terrible?

 

Talos was Imperial minded, he would understand if people couldn't worship him temporarily. You guys have the mind of Ysgramor and really it is him you should be worshiping. That's how it is with Religion I'm afraid, all one sided and your way is the only way... yet you're fighting for FREEDOM.

 

And, because you're "liberators" and "freedom-fighters", this gives you license to "oppress" thru violence those as seen as the cause of you misery. A true revolutionary will "rise-above their sh*tty situation and not just talk ~ but walk the walk and not become the "oppressor" themselves. Whiterun, Markarth, Dark Elves, Non-Nords in general, you guys are IMHO MORE OPPRESSIVE than the Empire and the WGC every thought about me or ever really was.

 

Yeah at Markarth, "Oh well we're sieging your neutral/peaceful city so we can "earn our freedom" and if you don't take up our cause right na we'll cut your head off or you'll watch while we eat your children and rape your wife". Tell me again why the Empire is the one I should be afraid of?

 

 

RFLMAO

Edited February 24, 2013 by StormHammer81

[fraquar]

@fraquar

 

You guys are so funny sometimes. And fraquar, you have no clue what I mean by "scorched earth".

 

My rule is this, if people make no effort to understand me or my cause (in this case the Empire) then I have no need to explain anything to them and find it more entertaining to just let them talk in circles. That said, I have truly tried to understand the Stormcloaks and where Ulfric is coming from.

 

I have yet to meet (1) Stormcloak willing to do the same for the Empire.

 

Whenever it might be that you guys are ready to come down from your High ground and meet me face to face, then we'll talk. Until then, I guess you'll just have to keep beating a dead horse and utterly failing at comprehending my argument.

 

I quite honestly could care less about Religion in general, I honor God with my heart and with my actions. Empire is saying don't honor Talos with your words. Is that so terrible?

 

Talos was Imperial minded, he would understand if people couldn't worship him temporarily. You guys have the mind of Ysgramor and really it is him you should be worshiping. That's how it is with Religion I'm afraid, all one sided and your way is the only way... yet you're fighting for FREEDOM.

 

RFLMAO

Help me understand then, because this quote is pretty black and white:

 

"The problem is Skyrim would be on it's own. So, if after they leave the Empire, let's say the Imperials go into their fields and light everything on fire, then start throwing down salt. And they raid, just before leaving salt the fields, which is exactly how the Romans did business. Even if Skyrim had enough land to grow food, they would still not produce enough food. Still need imports, even now they rely on East Empire Company like everyone else."

 

The very people who would be destroying Skyrim's ability to sustain itself would be NORDS - since they make up nearly the entirety of the Imperial presence in Skyrim militarily.

 

I'm not seeing a mass exodus of Imperial Nords out of Skyrim, destroying their homeland and hoping to possibly return in the future. I'm seeing Imperial Nords staying, rebuilding their lives and uniting under a consolidated Skyrim government. It's their homeland, they weren't fighting in the Imperial Army all this time to watch their country get destroyed, they were fighting to unite it.

[StormHammer81]

@faquar

I see what you mean however what I was saying was that... the "Scorched Earth" policy was implemented against the most vile of Rome's opponents when they were forced to "fall back" and give the enemy ground. It was the old "if we can't have it no one can" attitude and this hurt enemy advances considerably.

So the Empire's Legions are very diverse, much more diverse than the game represents. If the Empire is sufficiently antagonized, some other Imp General from Cyrodil or Morrowind or Highrock might take the same approach... if we can't have Skyrim, then neither can you Ulfric and start sabotaging sh*t.

And don't say they wouldn't because the way Ulfric has conducted this Civil War, the Empire owes him nothing and would be justified in getting back at him for his treachery.

The war continues no matter who wins or loses.

Edited February 25, 2013 by StormHammer81

[RighthandofSithis]

@fraquar

 

You guys are so funny sometimes. And fraquar, you have no clue what I mean by "scorched earth".

 

My rule is this, if people make no effort to understand me or my cause (in this case the Empire) then I have no need to explain anything to them and find it more entertaining to just let them talk in circles. That said, I have truly tried to understand the Stormcloaks and where Ulfric is coming from.

 

I have yet to meet (1) Stormcloak willing to do the same for the Empire.

 

Well, I'll start by, once again, asking you to present yourself with some dignity. Laughing at your opponents makes you the lesser man.

 

And when you say you don't understand the stormcloaks, do you mean in game, or some of our reasons for supporting them. If the latter, I'm more than happy to explain my position to you.

 

And it is strongly suggested that the Imperial Armies in Skyrim are made up with a large number of local recruits (or perhaps conscripts?).

 

And, well, as I stated, some of the most agricultural holds are already located withing Stormcloak territory (in fact, going by game representation, Whiterun is the only major farming hold outside of Stormcloak territory), and in the case of Whiterun, imperial troops didn't have a long enough presence to salt the ground (and you don't really have the option to do that in a complete rout).

[Kayyyleb]

 

@fraquar

 

You guys are so funny sometimes. And fraquar, you have no clue what I mean by "scorched earth".

 

My rule is this, if people make no effort to understand me or my cause (in this case the Empire) then I have no need to explain anything to them and find it more entertaining to just let them talk in circles. That said, I have truly tried to understand the Stormcloaks and where Ulfric is coming from.

 

I have yet to meet (1) Stormcloak willing to do the same for the Empire.

 

 

And it is strongly suggested that the Imperial Armies in Skyrim are made up with a large number of local recruits (or perhaps conscripts?).

Virtually all the Imperial soldiers who replace hold guards are nords.