Imperial VS Stormcloak

[Kayyyleb]

Mocking me? Hm, I've seen that before.

 

You see it was an analogy that you didnt understand.

 

In order to build a new Empire you must break down the old one and reforge it to make it better and more effective.

 

Thats the comparison.

 

Have you been through basic? Do you know what its like?

 

The AD is an Empire I might point out.

 

 

An empire is a state with politico-military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture — unlike a federation, an extensive state voluntarily composed of autonomous states and peoples.

 

What physically and politically constitutes an empire is variously defined. It might be a state effecting imperial policies, or a particular political structure. Empires are typically formed from separate components that come together. Some units include ethnic, national, cultural, and religious diversity.

No I actually understand the analogy. Yes I did go through basic 3 years ago. I can look up the dictionary definition of "empire" easily enough. And empires have been formed from other empires all across history/

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

Yes but still in this case I have pointed out several times that this Empire has failed the true test of nations.

 

Out of curiosity . . What branch?

 

And secondly, remember this, "The true measure of a man is taken at the moment of his death." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"It was anger that brought each of us here, but it is love that keeps us fighting." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"One lives for the things he is willing to die for." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"My hatred for the Empire is bested only by love for my countrymen." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Before we wage war upon our foes, we must wage a war against our lesser selves. Cleave to your higher voice and with it shatter your foes." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Some say Ulfric desires to be king and nothing more... have they not seen that his anger floats on a sea of tears?" - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Reasons? Since when does a man need a reason to protect his family, to defend his homeland? It's the damn outlanders and Empire that need the reasons." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Not this Empire. The world's better without it. Certainly Skyrim is. I fought in the Imperial army in the War against the Dominion. I bled and spilt blood for the Empire. And for what? The Empire to bend its knee before those evil elf bastards? Signing a treaty meant to kill the heart of the Empire itself. To deny Talos? No. I will have no part of any such Empire. And I will gladly gut anyone who says otherwise." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"I oppose tyranny. I oppose those who tell me how to live, what to think, and what to believe. I'm a man. Skyrim is man's homeland. That's a fact. A fact I'm proud of. There's no shame in that. Read your history." - Galmar

 

"First we'll kick the Thalmor and their bloody Imperial puppets out of the country. Then we'll rebuild Skyrim into the land she once was. When we are done with that, we will take our army to the Dominion, and show those pointy-eared bastards not every man is fit to be their slave." - Galmar

 

And Much more.

[Kayyyleb]

Yes but still in this case I have pointed out several times that this Empire has failed the true test of nations.

 

Out of curiosity . . What branch?

 

And secondly, remember this, "The true measure of a man is taken at the moment of his death." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"It was anger that brought each of us here, but it is love that keeps us fighting." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"One lives for the things he is willing to die for." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"My hatred for the Empire is bested only by love for my countrymen." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Before we wage war upon our foes, we must wage a war against our lesser selves. Cleave to your higher voice and with it shatter your foes." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Some say Ulfric desires to be king and nothing more... have they not seen that his anger floats on a sea of tears?" - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Reasons? Since when does a man need a reason to protect his family, to defend his homeland? It's the damn outlanders and Empire that need the reasons." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Not this Empire. The world's better without it. Certainly Skyrim is. I fought in the Imperial army in the War against the Dominion. I bled and spilt blood for the Empire. And for what? The Empire to bend its knee before those evil elf bastards? Signing a treaty meant to kill the heart of the Empire itself. To deny Talos? No. I will have no part of any such Empire. And I will gladly gut anyone who says otherwise." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"I oppose tyranny. I oppose those who tell me how to live, what to think, and what to believe. I'm a man. Skyrim is man's homeland. That's a fact. A fact I'm proud of. There's no shame in that. Read your history." - Galmar

 

"First we'll kick the Thalmor and their bloody Imperial puppets out of the country. Then we'll rebuild Skyrim into the land she once was. When we are done with that, we will take our army to the Dominion, and show those pointy-eared bastards not every man is fit to be their slave." - Galmar

 

And Much more.

Oh look Galmar is the idealistic, pissed off, emotionally-driven Stormcloak poster boy...who would've guessed? Listing quotes from one of my personally most hated NPCs in the game isn't really earning you any points. I am by my very nature a very pragmatic and practical person, which I would say is a huge reason why I support the Empire's practical, deliberate approach toward confronting the AD as opposed to the Stormcloaks mentality of "we're angry and wanna kill all the things!".

 

It's as simple as this really. An Imperial and a Stormcloak see a bank robbery in progress. The Stormcloak tries to wrestle the gun from the robber and be the hero despite the high likelihood of being shot and dying in vain. The Imperial calls the police and monitors the situation for an opportune time to intervene if deemed necessary. The robber might still get away with the money but for how long?

Edited March 5, 2013 by Kayyyleb

[StormHammer81]

Oh look Galmar is the idealistic, pissed off, emotionally-driven

Stormcloak poster boy...who would've guessed? Listing quotes from one of

my personally most hated NPCs in the game isn't really earning you any

points. I am by my very nature a very pragmatic and practical person,

which I would say is a huge reason why I support the Empire's practical,

deliberate approach toward confronting the AD as opposed to the

Stormcloaks mentality of "we're angry and wanna kill all the things!".

Yep. Take it from me, the brute force approach ain't always smart, though it may seem like the right thing to do... The right thing to do can get your a$$ killed or worse.

 

Time and place. That is what War is all about. Getting mad and going into a rage will cause you to almost certainly *lose* a war, esp if your opponent is patient.

 

And, you know... I'm sure the Elves saw this coming when they spun Ulfric up and let him go flying all over the place in a tither. They know what's up, they know the score.

 

If the AD was beaten then that would be one thing. Somehow I get the feeling they're in better straights than what is publicly known. Something overlooked...

 

This kind of reminds me of Return of the King? I think... Where the Nords and the Roman guys fought together? And how did they defeat "Sauron"? With an alliance.

 

Neither side could finish him on their own. And if you think Skyrim alone can take the Dominion, well, ultimately I think Skyrim will loose and end up just getting humiliated in the end.

 

Skyrim by itself against the AD will not go well. It will also open up ALL the borders to invasion. It's harder than you think to get troops across the sea. It's a b*tch.

 

Even if Skyrim allies with Hammerfell somehow? It's going to be a political nightmare and no one will be able to trust their neighbors after this.

 

I wish there were another way, but Ulfric won't have peace, Tullius acts like he'd settle for whatever to stop the war and Ulfric is like, "F*ck off."

 

So please, tell me again how that hot-headed dude is going to build an alliance? The first time someone questions his authority, tells him "no" or otherwise puts him in his place, all hell will break loose in that alliance.

 

Whereas, if the Empire can get it's head right, we might not even need Hammerfell and can hold our own, on our own. Hammerfell should still come back, but would they?

Edited March 5, 2013 by StormHammer81

[MidbossVyers]

Tullius won't settle for "whatever". He specifically points out that the only reason he'll stop the war is if Ulfric and Galmar are executed. Not even a peaceful surrender.

[RighthandofSithis]

 

Yes but still in this case I have pointed out several times that this Empire has failed the true test of nations.

 

Out of curiosity . . What branch?

 

And secondly, remember this, "The true measure of a man is taken at the moment of his death." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"It was anger that brought each of us here, but it is love that keeps us fighting." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

When we've reclaimed our homeland from the Imperials, we'll take the fight to the Thalmor. They are the true enemy. Make no mistake." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"One lives for the things he is willing to die for." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"My hatred for the Empire is bested only by love for my countrymen." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Before we wage war upon our foes, we must wage a war against our lesser selves. Cleave to your higher voice and with it shatter your foes." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Some say Ulfric desires to be king and nothing more... have they not seen that his anger floats on a sea of tears?" - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Reasons? Since when does a man need a reason to protect his family, to defend his homeland? It's the damn outlanders and Empire that need the reasons." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"Not this Empire. The world's better without it. Certainly Skyrim is. I fought in the Imperial army in the War against the Dominion. I bled and spilt blood for the Empire. And for what? The Empire to bend its knee before those evil elf bastards? Signing a treaty meant to kill the heart of the Empire itself. To deny Talos? No. I will have no part of any such Empire. And I will gladly gut anyone who says otherwise." - Galmar Stone Fist

 

"I oppose tyranny. I oppose those who tell me how to live, what to think, and what to believe. I'm a man. Skyrim is man's homeland. That's a fact. A fact I'm proud of. There's no shame in that. Read your history." - Galmar

 

"First we'll kick the Thalmor and their bloody Imperial puppets out of the country. Then we'll rebuild Skyrim into the land she once was. When we are done with that, we will take our army to the Dominion, and show those pointy-eared bastards not every man is fit to be their slave." - Galmar

 

And Much more.

Oh look Galmar is the idealistic, pissed off, emotionally-driven Stormcloak poster boy...who would've guessed? Listing quotes from one of my personally most hated NPCs in the game isn't really earning you any points. I am by my very nature a very pragmatic and practical person, which I would say is a huge reason why I support the Empire's practical, deliberate approach toward confronting the AD as opposed to the Stormcloaks mentality of "we're angry and wanna kill all the things!".

 

It's as simple as this really. An Imperial and a Stormcloak see a bank robbery in progress. The Stormcloak tries to wrestle the gun from the robber and be the hero despite the high likelihood of being shot and dying in vain. The Imperial calls the police and monitors the situation for an opportune time to intervene if deemed necessary. The robber might still get away with the money but for how long?

 

Well, it seems I missed a hell of a lot of debate. I suppose that happens when you're at University all day, and don't get back til like 10 at night.

 

The reason the Empire may be taking a slower approach to the dominion, true, but it would appear from my analysis to be a result of its slow, agonising death. They can't deal with Cyrodiil, they have trouble dealing with the Stormcloaks (and would killing ulfric really win the war, without addressing his support base? I mean, Ho Chi Minh died before the end of the Vietnam war, so...), their legions are stretched thin, They've lost the majority of their land and income over a period of 200 years, while another power has begun to rise in that time, their economy and industry was wreaked in the Great War, with little chance of recovering (due to conflicts).

 

Also, the Stormcloaks are not just about to rush into a war with Cyrodiil or the Dominion. If you speak to Ulfric or Galmar, they would tell you so (in fact, Ulfric states that getting rid of the Empire was only half the problem, the other half is rebuilding Skyrim).

[RighthandofSithis]

 

Oh look Galmar is the idealistic, pissed off, emotionally-driven

Stormcloak poster boy...who would've guessed? Listing quotes from one of

my personally most hated NPCs in the game isn't really earning you any

points. I am by my very nature a very pragmatic and practical person,

which I would say is a huge reason why I support the Empire's practical,

deliberate approach toward confronting the AD as opposed to the

Stormcloaks mentality of "we're angry and wanna kill all the things!".

 

 

Neither side could finish him on their own. And if you think Skyrim alone can take the Dominion, well, ultimately I think Skyrim will loose and end up just getting humiliated in the end.

 

Skyrim by itself against the AD will not go well. It will also open up ALL the borders to invasion. It's harder than you think to get troops across the sea. It's a b*tch.

 

Even if Skyrim allies with Hammerfell somehow? It's going to be a political nightmare and no one will be able to trust their neighbors after this.

 

I wish there were another way, but Ulfric won't have peace, Tullius acts like he'd settle for whatever to stop the war and Ulfric is like, "F*ck off."

 

So please, tell me again how that hot-headed dude is going to build an alliance? The first time someone questions his authority, tells him "no" or otherwise puts him in his place, all hell will break loose in that alliance.

 

Whereas, if the Empire can get it's head right, we might not even need Hammerfell and can hold our own, on our own. Hammerfell should still come back, but would they?

 

Um, explain how it would be easy for any army to march into skyrim? taking into consideration the rugged terrain, freezing climate, angry warlike people and naturally well defended mountains? Speaking to Jorleif we know that Pale Pass is actually the only route into Cyrodiil, so imagine marching your entire army through 1 narrow mountain pass.

 

Invading by sea is a b&@*$, thanks for supporting one of my arguments.

 

All borders would become open to threats? Name them. Cyrodiil will collapse, Morrowind already has, if High Rock had any interest in Skyrim's territories, they'd probably have intervened in the civil war, and Hammerfell hopefully will ally with Skyrim.

 

How will Hammerfell ally with Skyrim? There have been MANY more unlikely alliance in history (both RL and TES). The Ebonheart pact in the TES universe is the most unlikely (in fact almost impossible) of alliances, while in RL, we know that Joseph Stalin and the West put down their hatred of each other in the face of the common threat. Hell, its even suggested in game by Lu'ah al-Skaven.

 

And in the end, will it collapse? Perhaps, but we should not be suprised by that eventuallity. The Empire will collapse just as ferociously, and leave in its wake the same scenario as a broken Skyrim-hammerfell alliance (worse perhaps, as the EMpire may fall before the Dominion is defeated).

 

Why should this not be surprising? The sheer nature of the Feudal System, which the TES universe has been wrapped by for thousands of years. If we want to make eternal peace, we need to create material conditions far beyond that of any feudal state.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

The only people to successfully invade were the Nedic people. Prodo Nords. No one else has ever invaded and remained there for very long.

 

The Akaviri were not successful. No one else has ever marched into Skyrim except for minor parties like the Forsworn. Reyman Cyrodiil did not. Nor any Colovian King.

 

Galmar and Ulfric are attempting now to gain an alliance with High Rock. They talk of it. But the Bretons dont answer. Hammerfell will likely join. Morrowind wont be bothered by anyone soon, except the Argonians.

 

So Ulfric is not too "Hot headed" to deny help in the War against the Dominion. He sees that Skyrim needs to be independent and self reliant but not reclusive, secluded and solitary. He knows full well that if Skyrim is alone it wont be easy and many will die but he knows that if they dont stand up now they might as well fall upon their own spears.

Edited March 5, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak

[AlphaQ23]

I like how people seem to miss the point that your character is the Dragonborne. You are the weapon that can and will kill the Dominion(when a dlc comes out too do so).

 

I like the Imperials better. Why? I am not sure. Something about them just draws me to their side. And I like the point how people are arguing about which side has the bigger strength to take the larger Dominion on. It seems that not many people know much about history in real life.

 

Many smaller "nations" Have defeated more powerful nations in wars before. Prime Example. American Revolution. Hell even Mexico lost to Guatamala in Guatamalas Rebellion. Basically there it was like 100 to 1 odds(not accurate, though seemingly accurate). And there are many more through out history besides these two examples.

 

True not all rebellions or smaller forces vs a bigger force have resulted in a victory for the underdog. But It has happened. The Thalmor, although powerful, are too full of them selves to win in the end. True their tactics up to this point have been effective but they don't nessisarly mean they ultimatly win regardless of which side controls Skyrim.

 

Yes the Imperials do have a weaker leadership/army than they did before. But you know, that is where the Dragonborn would step in and set forth his continued tale of Heroic battles. Yeah Ulfric is pretty racist(maybe even to the point of being a Elder Scrolls Hitler minus the death camps). But that is where the Dragonborn steps in to continue his tales of Heroic battles. Hell maybe the creators will step up with a future dlc and let you join the Thalmor at some point, and that will shape the History (for your game at least) with the Thalmor taking complete control.

 

Ultimatley the secret weapon to defeat the Thalmor, and/or the Imperials/Stormcloaks for that matter, is the Dragonborn. I would Imagine at some point they might make it so you have the option of being the new Emperor/High King/(maybe even Dominion leader).

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

Who is the Leader of the Dominion speaking of which? I know the Thalmor are the lead political group of the AD but who's the representative of the Thalmor?

Also, Ulfric isnt exactly like Hitler (Not counting the Death Camps), Hitler never saw combat and was never captured. Ulfric was however. Hitler was imprisoned by German police after he began his revolt in the streets. Thus his writing of Mein Kampf. But Ulfric like Hitler truly loves his country. But unlike Hitler, Ulfric doesnt seek for Skyrim to be the rulers of Tamriel. He wants Skyrims independence and it brought back to its traditional ways. Hitler wanted Germany to change from its democracy to its old ways but even more so into this Utopia of German dominance. An Arian world. Hitler oppressed open Religion where as Ulfric supports it. Ulfric has the guards ignore the Dunmer. Hitler routed them out and arrested them. Them being the Jews.

Edited March 5, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak