Imperial VS Stormcloak

[elvinkun]

I've also noticed a pattern here. The ones that seem to side with the Stormcloaks are those that are new players to the TES series and/or started playing it from Oblivion or they just say that it's the Empire that took their god from them and the Empire tried killing you at the start or they're fighting for their independence. If you don't know much about TES lore, please don't try and argue.

I admit I haven't played Arena..at all, other than that, I always was a huge fan, so thank you very much.

Empire changed during those 200 years, and what it changed into isn't really worth defending or preserving, mabe it's about time for one nation to fall. YOu know, there is evolution...and devolution. This is more of the second.

Strmcloaks are far from ideal, but I still see them as lesser of two evils. Also, not sure if Tulius excusing after you capture whole Skyrim for him counts as an excuse at all.

 

I'm not sure why there is always someone in every discussion who will attempt to bring it to personal level, rather than debate, but good job, you are -the- one of this thread.

Edited December 3, 2011 by elvinkun

[pyrofreak123]

The way i see it, both sides are right. The differance is in volume.

 

The Stormcloaks fight for Skyrim.

 

The Empire fights for Tamriel.

 

Personally, i don't give a rats ass about Skyrim when the whole contenant is on the line. The Nords can suck it up for a few decades while we put those damned Thalmor into the ground like we did in the Second Age. Then they can get back to their heathen Talos worship. Me? Azura, Meridia and Nocturnal are the only gods i need.

 

That's a really good point. I was kind of blind and thought Ulfric was noble, but he isn't.

[CemeteryN7]

Thanks for acknowledging me with that opinion elvinkun. I wasn't referring to you exactly and I wasn't saying everyone in general, the majority however, yes. I understand that there is evolution and devolution, but the fact is the Empire is a shadow of its former self, but they are the best hope for fighting the Thalmor. Now the stormcloaks attacking the Empire doesn't help matters. If the provinces were to unite (the Empire's goal), they'd be able to defeat the Thalmor, rebuild, and change a bit. Evolution. Ulfric thinks the Empire has sided with the Thalmor and acts like a child, so he attacks. I think the cause for the Stormcloaks is noble, just misplaced. I'm usually a fence sitter when it comes to a lot, but the Empire is the better of the two. With the Empire gone, man will be destroyed by the Thalmor, no one will be able to stop them. The Redguards were able to hold them off for a bit, but eventually they will cave. Skyrim won't stand a chance. The Empire is what is keeping man alive right now. If they do defeat the Thalmor, then I think they should change somewhat, but it's not going to without the help of others.

 

And if I seemed to be taking this to a personal level, I apologize, I just like good debates. Plus TES is one of favorite series/universes/whatever you want to call it next to Star Wars, so I just like debating/conversing about it with others that have the same feelings.

[InAComaDial999]

Ending the war is what's key, whether the Stormcloaks or the Imperials win. The Thalmor want to perpetuate the war to keep the Empire's forces divided and drain its coffers. IMO ending the war in Skyrim's favor will hurt the Thalmor the most, since the Empire won't keep occupying forces in Skyrim and can focus on rebuilding its army. Meanwhile, I'm not so sure that rushing to reunite all of the provinces under the banner of the current Empire is necessarily the best policy; a unified command makes it much easier for the Thalmor to find out what they are plotting, and the tensions caused by the ban on Talos and other restrictions makes it harder to avoid internal conflict. And ultimately, there's nothing to stop Skyrim, Hammerfell, and the Empire from forming an alliance against the Thalmor once all three have had a chance to rebuild.

 

As far as the "But Ulfric is Racist!" thing, I'm not so sure the Imperials are much better. I don't see the Khajiit caravans being warmly welcomed inside the walls of Solitude, or Argonians in Imperial uniforms. The Empire wasn't exactly treating the Dunmer well in TESIII, and there was plenty of racial tension in TESIV (e.g. Countess Alessia Caro in Leyawiin).

 

Beyond that, if the attitude in places like Windhelm bothers you, the game actually allows you to do something about it: there are a number of quests where you do things like help the Argonians get better pay, stop raids on Dunmer caravans when Ulfric ignores them, etc. You get to make a difference, make life better for those people and/or show the Nords that they can all work side by side. IMO fixing the problem from the inside is a lot better than just taking your ball and going home.

Edited December 4, 2011 by InAComaDial999

[anonymous961]

I've never played the previous Elder Scrolls games so I don't know much of the Empire's history but based on current events I sided with the Imperial Legion. I don't really like that they tried to execute me, an innocent, without a second glance but at the same time I kinda understood why.

 

I disapprove of Ulfric's actions. He started this civil war because he is against the peace treaty with the Thalmors but in my opinion he just acted on a whim without regard of anything else but himself and his ideals. Starting a civil war whilst the enemy is among your midst is suicide. The Thalmor needn't even lift a finger and just watch while you destroy yourselves. War cripples a country and when both countries' lost is too severe you sign a peace treaty to recover your forces and start again. And while the Thalmor is recovering, the Empire is fighting among themselves. If you want to take down the Thalmor you should end this war quick. I based my decision on which side would have more of an advantage if they went to war with the Thalmor and thus I chose the Imperial Legion.

 

The Stormcloak's racism doesn't help if say you want to form an alliance with another race in the future.

[Matth85]

Ending the war is what's key, whether the Stormcloaks or the Imperials win

Currently it is a 3v3 war going on, so to speak. If the Stormcloak with it is a 1v3, 3 times. The Thalmor would have no problems sweeping over the primitive Nords in Skyrim. So far the only people that have had a chance to repel tha Thalmor is the Redguard with help of a lot of veteran Legions.

 

There empire is building up strength to hit the Thalmor hard. However, thanks to the idiot Ulfric, they must keep that on hold. They now need to win the war and survive the dragons before they can build up and hit the Thalmor.

I see the Stormcloak as very, VERY, shortsighted. Win Skyrim, lose it a year later. I then see the Imperial as a lesser evil, a bunch of guys in shirt, but they are the best defense.

 

What could a bunch of Nords, that hate magic and wear leather armor, do against the Thalmor, who use light elven armor, strong elven sword and know magic to burn their opponents and heal. It would be like the moive 300, but this time they could heal each other.

The empire accept magic more and they use heavy armor. They don't got the moronic way of thinkin like the Nords and Redguard does: Stand and fight even if you die! A strategy that is so easy to turn on the head.

 

The problem is that Ulfric would put himself on the throne. Now we had a Nord-lover on the throne. Skyrim is rebuild as primitive as usual. They might get an offer to join a rebuild empire, to strike back at the Thalmor. Ulfric would piss on that and feel safe in Skyrim. Now, the Thalmor could choose to attack Skyrim, and the empire would just watch. Or they could go on a double front against the Empire, while Ulfric watches. Really, cutting 1 out of 3 in a war like this is idiotic. Ulfric is too full of pride and to shortsighted to see that.

[InAComaDial999]

Ending the war is what's key, whether the Stormcloaks or the Imperials win

Currently it is a 3v3 war going on, so to speak. If the Stormcloak with it is a 1v3, 3 times. The Thalmor would have no problems sweeping over the primitive Nords in Skyrim. So far the only people that have had a chance to repel tha Thalmor is the Redguard with help of a lot of veteran Legions.

 

The Thalmor haven't attacked Hammerfell in 25 years, and there's no reason to think they would immediately attack Skyrim if it threw the Empire out. And Skyrim is a whole lot harder to reach, both by land and by sea, than Hammerfell. The Thalmor would have to march forces and establish supply lines all the way through Cyrodiil to get to Skyrim. If anything that looks like a great way to get a large chunk of Thalmor forces tied down with their flank open to the Imperials.

 

Anyway, bottom line is it doesn't matter which side the Dovahkin picks, because the Empire and the Nords will unite against the Thalmor, whether it happens under a united Empire or as an alliance.

[justwannaddl]

The Thalmor doesn't have teleportation magic. They cannot just skip past Cyrodiil and go directly after Skyrim in afull invasion. Without Imperial consent, they wouldn't be able to run roughshod all over Skyrim the way they do now. If the Thalmor were to attack, they would likely be worn down trying to take Cyrodiil and far too busy occupying it to invade Skyrim.

[Matth85]

The Thalmor haven't attacked Hammerfell in 25 years, and there's no reason to think they would immediately attack Skyrim if it threw the Empire out. And Skyrim is a whole lot harder to reach, both by land and by sea, than Hammerfell. The Thalmor would have to march forces and establish supply lines all the way through Cyrodiil to get to Skyrim. If anything that looks like a great way to get a large chunk of Thalmor forces tied down with their flank open to the Imperials.

 

 

The Thalmor doesn't have teleportation magic. They cannot just skip past Cyrodiil and go directly after Skyrim in afull invasion. Without Imperial consent, they wouldn't be able to run roughshod all over Skyrim the way they do now. If the Thalmor were to attack, they would likely be worn down trying to take Cyrodiil and far too busy occupying it to invade Skyrim.

 

So, let's say Ulfric is now the king over Skyrim. Now the Thalmor attacks Hammerfell. Do you honestly think he would help? The same guy who can't see past his own nose? The Thalmor could have a 2v3, and probably win, leaving SKyrim all alone. Thalmor could not save up energy, while Ulfric is busy chasing out anything but Nords from Skyrim.

 

No, Ulfric would not be a good leader for Skyrim. The guy is so shortsighted he would probably not help Cyrodiil or Hamerfell if it was under attack by Thalmor. Wether the Dovahkin wants to or not, he is not elected for High King. Ulfric is the one getting that honor.

[ddwmk2002]

They now need to win the war and survive the dragons before they can build up and hit the Thalmor.

 

 

I seriously doubt that skyrim will have to survive the dragons, more like.... the thalmor have to survive the wraith of the dovakin when he calls his dragon buddies, regardless if you kill pathanax or not, you still get the cooperation of dragons, if you kill him, you are regarded as having the strongest thum and is regarded as the new alduin, if you dont kill him, you get to be best friends with a dragon who will probably help you if you ask nicely along with a dragon army. if he dosent... well i did hate to kill such a fine dragon to get the dragons help :sad: dosent matter which side you help.... your enemies wont want to cross a couple of dragons, just to see how effective a single dragon is in a war situation, use call dragon while doing legion or stormcloak quests to capture forts or cities, odavin [i got his name wrong] basically rips the fort apart all by himself even on master