Imperial VS Stormcloak

[kradus]

Lets try 100.

 

Bretons and Nords where at war for a long time, until Talos united them. The Akaviri didn't retreat untill after sacking windhelm and the lands to the south, and the Ayelids subdued and ruled the nords for a time, in opposition to the Thalmor who seem more interested in purging them. The point of the matter is that Skyrim's natural defences as you guys have been pointing out, have never been able to keep the enemy out or mentioned in lore for such a purpose.

 

 

Similarly, you are saying that following an imperial Victory, Skyrim would not be able to recover.

And of course we can't rely on imperial loyalists, but that is why they either keep fighting in their small camps, admit defeat and go back to work, or retreat to Cyrodiil.

 

Its not that skyrim can't recouver, it's that the stormcloaks will hardly find any allies amongst the people who they have been killing. This includes Cyrodiil, High Rock, and nords themselfs. That's what I keep saying.

Edited March 9, 2013 by kradus

[GeneralTullius]

The Thalmor really don't need Ulfric to further their cause. Why?

 

Well that's a very good question, apparently they did need him. Ulfric Stormcloak, Imperial Officer, Veteran, Son of Eastmarch, Descendent of Ysgramor, was immediately assigned as an asset to a special interrogator shortly after his capture. But this was no ordinary interrogation, not by any means. See, the Imperial City (IC) had already fallen by that time and the Thalmor really didn't need to interrogate him or do anything further aside from imprisoning him or executing him. This is the part that everyone always misses or in the Stormcloak case ignores, swept under the rug. The Thalmor are for the most part, all Altmer. High Elves are very skilled with illusion and there's a reason why the spell they start the game with is fury. Anyways, so Ulfric was broken by the Thalmor and re-programmed. See it wasn't enough to just beat the Empire, they needed a point man on the inside... you know to finish the job. That's where Ulfric came in. Ulfric was strong too I bet that man suffered like you can't imagine before he finally broke down and surrendered his mind to the Thalmor. Cause that's what happened. Here's the thing, Ulfric is not an agent of the Thalmor. Ok? He's not working for them directly. What they did was condition him and reprogrammed an area of his sub-conscience - That's theres, that belongs to the Thalmor. So what this means is, the Thalmor have like a back door built into Ulfric' subconscience, it's all in the Dossier you just have to read it and forget yourself and your emotions. The Thalmor are hands off for now because they don't need to activate him or turn him on or do anything else. That's the beauty of this. And I'm sure Ulfric is uncooperative, hell I would be to. Doesn't matter. Because while Ulfric is uncooperative he is Dormant. That's what they mean by that. He hasn't been activated or given any new orders. Essentially, Ulfric Stormcloak was turned into a ticking time-bomb by the Thalmor. No one knows, when or where he'll go off, chances are he won't know what he's doing because he won't be in control, the Thalmor will have control over him. The Thalmor said they were in contact with Ulfric... Before Markarth went down... Right? Anyone get it now? Why do you think the only thing Ulfric asked for was freedom to worship Talos in Markarth of all places. Makes no sense. Not for all of Skyrim, not for Eastmarch, just for Markarth. And you Stormcloaks, you utter fools full of your talking, the Thalmor are in your minds now too. Especially if Ulfric is the truest of you all. Makes me sick to think of what he'll do as High King, the Thalmor want him on that throne! Don't any of you understand this? Ulfric is being passively controlled by the Thalmor. That's why he's an asset not an agent. That's why he's so hell bent on fighting the Legion, the Thalmor taught him how to hate the Legion. The Empire is the real threat to the Thalmor:

 

The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim

 

Elenwen came to save him at Helgen! Ulfric's been compromised. It's the EMPIRE that can still Destroy the Thalmor and you know what? The Thalmor are afraid of the Empire, they'll talk a good talk, but they're afraid of us. And they're not afraid of you Stormcloaks because they already have all of you under control, you who have surrendered your minds to Ulfric, who have chosen to reject Diplomacy and have chosen to murder your neighbors. Well, you can have that. I'm soooooooo happy that I did the Main Quest first and never got involved with that little trap. After Season Unending the first thing I did was get on over to Solitude and have a chat with the old man. You tell me what's better, oh wise ones. Is it better to live as a monster or to die a man? And let me say this, the Empire still has hope, Talos has given us a vision. We live, deal with it. Every Stormcloak has already lost the fight, because you have put your lives and your faith in someone whose been an unwilling and unwitting victim of the Thalmor mind control. And with that level of tinkering and digging, you don't just undo it. Killing Ulfric is the only way out for him and for Tamriel.

 

Let's give the Empire a chance for old times sake and stop running away from our responsibility to Tamriel and to each other, to clean up this mess. Talos was an Imperial and he has many enemies, showing great signs and wonders to deceive people. I won't be deceived, will you?

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

 

 

 

However, most of Skyrim's agriculture is already in Stormlcoak territory, the rest is neutral. Nonetheless, you must understand that amungst the Imperial holds, there are a number of Stormlcoaks. Falkreath is riddled with them, apparently, it is not uncommon for people to join the stormcloaks from Morthal (and across all of Skyrim), and in Markarth, half the city is owned by Stormcloaks. Similarly, you are saying that following an imperial Victory, Skyrim would not be able to recover.

 

And of course we can't rely on imperial loyalists, but that is why they either keep fighting in their small camps, admit defeat and go back to work, or retreat to Cyrodiil.

 

And, in fact, the Nords did scare off one Akaviri army (after Reman's time), they did screw the Alyieds and Falmer over, and when did the bretons invade? Hell, its acknowledged a Nordic Army defeated an Aldmeri one even when the nords were surrounded!

 

EDIT: Also, how many pages until we have to open another thread?

 

Wrong, this is all wrong. All garbage. Most of Skyrim's agriculture is not all in Stormcloak territory, You have Riften. Big deal we have Solitude, we have Whiterun, we have Markarth, everyone of these cities produces food and has farms. Stop telling out right lies, I'm sick of reading this crap.

 

Imperial loyalists are the cream of the crop, to stay loyal to this Empire what with all it's been thru, to be man and woman enough to take up the mantle and vision of Talos and to fight against the greates threat the Empire has ever known of late, is a worthy cause. We're worth it, go back to Ulfric and try to fix him. But ya'll don't fix things or take on any responsibility you would much rather whine and run to your room like little children than stand a fight for what Talos wanted. I can tell you this, he would rather his people be safe and have a future than worship him. Talos was a real man and he understood man, he understood what evil man has to deal with and the sacrifices we are forced to make not just for ourselves but for all of Tamriel. And another thing, he didn't just want Nords in Skyrim. Geez if I was you guys I would be afraid to be in his presence, much less to worship him. You cry that you can't worship him for your pride but you know not what it is you worship.

 

Another thing too, Cicero said that he has seen violence break out before in cities he did not say cities in Cyrodil. He specifically mentions cities including those of Cyrodil throughout his journal and said in the beginning that he had experience from his past life.

 

And we're not going to admit defeat time for you guys to go run back to Windhelm and hide, let the men handle this.

 

The Empire was spent after the war. The Imperials specifically. But the Nord legions suffered very little casualties during the campaign. Although some, well many, Nords did in fact die for the Empire's sake.

 

The Empire's current state -

 

-Political strife

-Power struggles ( The Council was unable to successfully put an Emperor on the throne then Mede took it by force)

-Military is devastated

-Civil War in Skyrim

-Economy is very unstable

-Attempting to match the forces on the border with the dominion

-Allowing its people to be murdered

-Civil unrest within its own capitol

 

These are things that destroy governments. I know many of you directly oppose Ulfric, but you have to turn around and look at the Empire's situation. Its, as many NPC's state, decaying and rotting from within. Skyrim is suffering from the Empires situation. So forcing Skyrim back into the Empire is not going to suddenly solve all of its problems.

 

@HighkingUlfricStormcloak

 

Ohhhhhh boo-hoo-hoo it's awful *sniffle* it's so awful, why does life have to be so hard boo-hoo-hoo, I just want to live but I don't want to be a part of the solution boo-hoo-hoo

 

Now, lol normally I don't even take posts like this seriously. Life's hard some times, if you can't handle, time for you to go run back to Windhelm and hide under the bed with Sithis. Your posts are very oppressive, just so you know. Can't believe that anyone here would put up with your crap for as long as they have. It's unbelievable.

 

There I'm done. I stand up for what is right, and I stand up for Tamriel, not just Nords. And I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty or to take a litte criticism for what Titus Mede II had to do. I'm not a religious man at all and I say do away with organized religion altogether. Let people worship whatever is in their hearts. All the WGC really is, is separation between church and state. That's it. I strongly support the Concordant I think it should be expanded, good job TMII. Not so good a job with Hammerfell, but hey it's not like they were listening to him anymore anyways. They want to fight it out, let them make fools of each other. Fine with me. Another thing, please, please, please stop judging the Empire based on what it was under the Septims. We have 1, 2, 3, 4... 4 Provinces left. Judge it from that point of view.

 

Thank you and Goodnight, Have a Happy Weekend.

Edited March 9, 2013 by GeneralTullius

[RighthandofSithis]

Lets try 100.

 

Bretons and Nords where at war for a long time, until Talos united them. The Akaviri didn't retreat untill after sacking windhelm and the lands to the south, and the Ayelids subdued and ruled the nords for a time, in opposition to the Thalmor who seem more interested in purging them. The point of the matter is that Skyrim's natural defences as you guys have been pointing out, have never been able to keep the enemy out or mentioned in lore for such a purpose.

 

 

 

Similarly, you are saying that following an imperial Victory, Skyrim would not be able to recover.

And of course we can't rely on imperial loyalists, but that is why they either keep fighting in their small camps, admit defeat and go back to work, or retreat to Cyrodiil.

Its not that skyrim can't recouver, it's that the stormcloaks will hardly find any allies amongst the people who they have been killing. This includes Cyrodiil, High Rock, and nords themselfs. That's what I keep saying.

So, could you anem an instance where the Bretons defeated the Nords? I can name a few instances of the Nords defeating the Bretons (such as the skyrim conquests).

 

The Akaviri, then, did not take over all of Skyrim, and indeed, in Windhelm, there was no organised resistance from the sound of things.

 

Actually, the Nords subdued the Falmer, and assisted greatly in the Subjugation of the Alyieds at White-Gold tower, offering a force of well trained and hardy warriors. The Alyieds subdued the Imperials for a time.

 

True, Skyrim's natural defenses have been broken, when there is nothing to defend them. Remember, not even Reman Cyrodiil could take Pale Pass without the fort being destroyed by an avalanche, and Tiber Septim had to be invited into Skyrim (hell, he had ready access to Falkreath).

 

I do not suggest that Skyrim would ally with Cyrodiil (as it would collapse), more that Skyrim would pretty much become the force capable of absorbing The Northern Cities of Cyrodiil (particularly, and crucially, bruma), The Kingdoms of High Rock would be far to separated and isolated to be able to form an Alliance with the Entire province, although some Kingdoms close to the Border may see Skyrim as a powerful ally.

 

And by that logic, the Entente cordiale, the Allies of WW2, the Molotov Ribbentrop pact and the roman auxillaries should never have existed.

Edited March 9, 2013 by RighthandofSithis

[RighthandofSithis]

 

 

 

However, most of Skyrim's agriculture is already in Stormlcoak territory, the rest is neutral. Nonetheless, you must understand that amungst the Imperial holds, there are a number of Stormlcoaks. Falkreath is riddled with them, apparently, it is not uncommon for people to join the stormcloaks from Morthal (and across all of Skyrim), and in Markarth, half the city is owned by Stormcloaks. Similarly, you are saying that following an imperial Victory, Skyrim would not be able to recover.

 

And of course we can't rely on imperial loyalists, but that is why they either keep fighting in their small camps, admit defeat and go back to work, or retreat to Cyrodiil.

 

And, in fact, the Nords did scare off one Akaviri army (after Reman's time), they did screw the Alyieds and Falmer over, and when did the bretons invade? Hell, its acknowledged a Nordic Army defeated an Aldmeri one even when the nords were surrounded!

 

EDIT: Also, how many pages until we have to open another thread?

 

Wrong, this is all wrong. All garbage. Most of Skyrim's agriculture is not all in Stormcloak territory, You have Riften. Big deal we have Solitude, we have Whiterun, we have Markarth, everyone of these cities produces food and has farms. Stop telling out right lies, I'm sick of reading this crap.

 

Imperial loyalists are the cream of the crop, to stay loyal to this Empire what with all it's been thru, to be man and woman enough to take up the mantle and vision of Talos and to fight against the greates threat the Empire has ever known of late, is a worthy cause. We're worth it, go back to Ulfric and try to fix him. But ya'll don't fix things or take on any responsibility you would much rather whine and run to your room like little children than stand a fight for what Talos wanted. I can tell you this, he would rather his people be safe and have a future than worship him. Talos was a real man and he understood man, he understood what evil man has to deal with and the sacrifices we are forced to make not just for ourselves but for all of Tamriel. And another thing, he didn't just want Nords in Skyrim. Geez if I was you guys I would be afraid to be in his presence, much less to worship him. You cry that you can't worship him for your pride but you know not what it is you worship.

 

And we're not going to admit defeat time for you guys to go run back to Windhelm and hide, let the men handle this.

 

 

Firstly, fix your attitude. We've already had one arrogant Imperial supporter, we don;t need another one (and i'm sure the established Imperial supporters don;t need someone making them look bad).

 

Those first sentences are false. the Stormcloaks have riften, and Windhelm (by lore, an agricultural hold). The Empire does not have Whiterun, as it is a neutral hold. Solitude and Markarth, by game representation, have very little agricultural activity. And that second paragraph does not address my points, so i shall ignore it.

[GeneralTullius]

Firstly, fix your attitude. We've already had one arrogant Imperial supporter, we don;t need another one (and i'm sure the established Imperial supporters don;t need someone making them look bad).

 

No I stand up for what is right. I tell you what, when you Stormcloaks stop lieing to people and threatening harm to people... I saw that post... Then I will treat you like a person. This Legionaire is not going to debate over lies with you.

 

You guys are the ones who need to calm down and start listening to people. As for the Imperials, Talos bless them each and every one but if they can't speak the truth and man up for Talos's Empire they can also go to Windhelm. So far, the Imperials I have seen are true, honest and seem like good people. Except for that other guy who was banned, he was out of line and I think he deserved it. But I've seen you Stormcloaks get on here and rant and rave for pages on end and that seems to be perfectly fine. Although, I haven't read all of them. No, no too many.

 

You're not going to get away with treating me like dirt. Stop lieing, stop posting a 300 page post and trying to beliitle people, Sithis. Your posts are very degrading towards people who don't agree with you.

 

You guys could never build a country, ever much less maint one. The first person who questioned you or disagreed with you would either get run out of town or burnt at the stake. No wonder they put the Stormcloaks in cages. If you're going to act like an animal.

Edited March 9, 2013 by GeneralTullius

[RighthandofSithis]

 

Firstly, fix your attitude. We've already had one arrogant Imperial supporter, we don;t need another one (and i'm sure the established Imperial supporters don;t need someone making them look bad).

 

No I stand up for what is right. I tell you what, when you stop lieing to people and threatening harm to people... I saw that post... Then I will treat you like a person. This Legionaire is not going to debate over lies with you.

 

You guys are the ones who need to calm down and start listening to people. As for the Imperials, Talos bless them each and every one but if they can't speak the truth and man up for Talos's Empire they can also go to Windhelm.

 

You're not going to get away with treating me like dirt. Stop lieing, stop posting a 300 page post and trying to beliitle people, Sithis. Your posts are very degrading towards people who don't agree with you.

 

There was no need to use such blatantly aggressive language. I am here to argue and debate with people, and am willing to do that. I am not here to put up with childish behaviour.

 

Present your argument, not your arrogance.

 

GeneralTullius, on 09 Mar 2013 - 14:20, said:

The Empire was spent after the war. The Imperials specifically. But the Nord legions suffered very little casualties during the campaign. Although some, well many, Nords did in fact die for the Empire's sake.

 

The Empire's current state -

 

-Political strife

-Power struggles ( The Council was unable to successfully put an Emperor on the throne then Mede took it by force)

-Military is devastated

-Civil War in Skyrim

-Economy is very unstable

-Attempting to match the forces on the border with the dominion

-Allowing its people to be murdered

-Civil unrest within its own capitol

 

These are things that destroy governments. I know many of you directly oppose Ulfric, but you have to turn around and look at the Empire's situation. Its, as many NPC's state, decaying and rotting from within. Skyrim is suffering from the Empires situation. So forcing Skyrim back into the Empire is not going to suddenly solve all of its problems.

 

 

@HighkingUlfricStormcloak

 

Ohhhhhh boo-hoo-hoo it's awful *sniffle* it's so awful, why does life have to be so hard boo-hoo-hoo, I just want to live but I don't want to be a part of the solution boo-hoo-hoo

 

Now, lol normally I don't even take posts like this seriously. Life's hard some times, if you can't handle, time for you to go run back to Windhelm and hide under the bed with Sithis. Your posts are very oppressive, just so you know. Can't believe that anyone here would put up with your crap for as long as they have. It's unbelievable.

 

There I'm done. I stand up for what is right, and I stand up for Tamriel, not just Nords. And I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty or to take a litte criticism for what Titus Mede II had to do. I'm not a religious man at all and I say do away with organized religion altogether. Let people worship whatever is in their hearts. All the WGC really is, is separation between church and state. That's it. I strongly support the Concordant I think it should be expanded, good job TMII. Not so good a job with Hammerfell, but hey it's not like they were listening to him anymore anyways. They want to fight it out, let them make fools of each other. Fine with me. Another thing, please, please, please stop judging the Empire based on what it was under the Septims. We have 1, 2, 3, 4... 4 Provinces left. Judge it from that point of view.

 

Thank you and Goodnight, Have a Happy Weekend.

 

 

I think you have severely underestimated the situation of the Empire. To compeltly understand this whole spiral of decay and collapse, we muct go back to the Oblivion crisis, 200 years prior to Skyrim.

 

Following the Oblivion Crisis, the Empire collapsed. Black marsh first, followed by Elsweyr. Summerset Isle followed eventually, taking Valenwood with it. Morrowind never formally declared independence, however, it was decimated by the Red year, and even now is hostile to the Empire. it would also be reaosnable to conclude that the gains made in the Warp in the West were lost, and the various kingdoms of High Rock becan fighting themselves again. At some point, the crowns and Forbears in hammerfell began a civil war.

 

Eventually, Titus Mede the First was able to take the throne, and take back Elsweyr (implied), and restore some order to Tamriel (although he was not able to bring complete unity to the Empire, as Hammerfell showed). These gains proved to be a band-aid, and Elsweyr defected to the Dominion within the century (a short time when Empires are concerned).

 

Now, in skyrim itself, a few disasters happen that further crippled the Empire, namely, the loss of two powerful merchant cities (Winterhold and riften). Riften eventually rebuilt, but never to the same degree (as we can see, the agriculture seems to have thrived, as it was probably one of the few industries that could be rebuilt relatively quickly).

 

Then things got really bad. The great war was known to completely destroy Cyrodiil (both common sense, and Camila Valerius suggest this). Not only that, but the Imperial Legion was decimated (an effect still felt today, as the Legion is known to be stretched thin), and the Imperial treasury (suggested in the Markarth Incident, when the Empire couldn't simply pay mercenaries).

 

Things got even worse. Hammerfell was forced to leave, and Cyrodiil began to experience severe drug wars (which, according to Cicero, have still not been addressed), which must hamper any recovery effort. Piracy in the Illiac Bay becomes rampant, probably due to a thinly stretched legion (and navy). this is looking very severe, and then the Stormcloak rebellion starts, adding just that bit more to the Empires troubles.

 

If this analysis isn't enough, even in game, characters suggest at this sort of thing. Rikke and Brina Merilis admit, the Empire is facing a crisis, but refuse to comment on it because they see the Militant side of things, and not the economic 9which is just as important, if not more so). And every Legate you speak to will tell you the Legion is stretched thin.

[GeneralTullius]

There was no need to use such blatantly aggressive language. I am here to argue and debate with people, and am willing to do that. I am not here to put up with childish behaviour.

 

Present your argument, not your arrogance.

 

And I'm not here to be threatened or lied to. I don't treat others like that in the real world. The post you were referring to about the other guy, I hadn't even seen that until this afternoon. You know, you have been wrong about quite a bit and my grandad who is a Korean Vet always said, it's better to just be yourself and don't be afraid to be wrong than to live someone else's life. If you're wrong just go ahead and say, I'm wrong. Don't try and repackage it so we'll agree with it. If something is broken, fix it don't pretend like it's supposed to be broken.

 

Like I said, though you Stormcloaks need to stop with the condescending aggressive behavior to, I picked up on that right away. You really shouldn't be surprised someone is trying to help you. Don't try and put this one on me.

 

I''m a veteran, not a boy or some college kid idealist. I've been to war. I've seen horrors and suffering like you've never seen and brave men lose their minds at the drop of dime.

 

Ultimately, we're all dead men and what we do in life echoes into eternity.

Edited March 9, 2013 by GeneralTullius

[RighthandofSithis]

 

There was no need to use such blatantly aggressive language. I am here to argue and debate with people, and am willing to do that. I am not here to put up with childish behaviour.

 

Present your argument, not your arrogance.

And I'm not here to be threatened or lied to. I don't treat others like that in the real world. The post you were referring to about the other guy, I hadn't even seen that until this afternoon. You know, you have been wrong about quite a bit and my grandad who is a Korean Vet always said, it's better to just be yourself above and beyond all else. If you're wrong just go ahead and say, I'm wrong. Don't try and repackage it so we'll agree with it. If something is broken, fix it don't pretend like it's supposed to be broken.

 

Like I said, though you Stormcloaks need to stop with the condescending aggressive behavior to, I picked up on that right away. You really shouldn't be surprised someone is trying to help you.

 

With all due respect, I'm sure your grandad wouldn't like you be so insulting as to say that we stormcloaks are crybabies.

 

And could you please explain how I have been aggressive? I'm more than willing to hear you out. In fact, I'd prefer to hear you out and try to settle this like adults, than bring a moderator into this.

[GeneralTullius]

With all due respect, I'm sure your grandad wouldn't like you be so insulting as to say that we stormcloaks are crybabies.

 

And could you please explain how I have been aggressive? I'm more than willing to hear you out. In fact, I'd prefer to hear you out and try to settle this like adults, than bring a moderator into this.

lol Oh I see. So Sithis way or we call the moderator. Typical. So typical of the internet nowadays. So when someone finally stands up to you guys, on your level then we have to go run for the modertor to silence them. How exactly is it that you guys fight for freedom again? You can go get whoever you want, but somewhere deep down inside, you don't want to resolve this like men. A real man would have never made a statement like that and tried to drag a neutral party into solving your problems for you. You kids want the world on your terms, well the world doesn't work like that. You have to think, you have to use your head, you have to be real. And people can tell when you're a fake, when you're an imposter. I haven't done anything wrong and if the Nexus gives in to you banning me over this, after all the things that I've seen you guys post, then it ain't much of a website. Seems like a pretty well run site though. I like a lot of the mods on here and the design of the interface(s) is really neat. So far, I've heard nothing but alot of Good things about this place and I've read through most of the rules and everything so they seem to have integrity. Unlike some Stormlcoaks I've seen running around here.

Edited March 9, 2013 by GeneralTullius

[RighthandofSithis]

 

With all due respect, I'm sure your grandad wouldn't like you be so insulting as to say that we stormcloaks are crybabies.

 

And could you please explain how I have been aggressive? I'm more than willing to hear you out. In fact, I'd prefer to hear you out and try to settle this like adults, than bring a moderator into this.

 

Oh I see. So Sithis way or we call the moderator. Typical. So typical of the internet nowadays. You can go get whoever you want, but somewhere deep down inside, you don't want to resolve this like men. A real man would have never made a statement like that. You kids want the world on your terms, well the world doesn't work like that. You have to think, you have to use your head, you have to be real. And people can tell when you're a fake, when you're an imposter. I haven't done anything wrong and if the Nexus gives in to you banning me over this, after all the things that I've seen you guys post, then it ain't much of a website. Seems like a pretty well run site though. I like a lot of the mods on here and the design of the interface(s) is really nice.

 

Give me liberty or give me death!

 

That was my point, if you want to settle this like men, then lets do so. I'll begin:

 

Wrong, this is all wrong. All garbage. Most of Skyrim's agriculture is not all in Stormcloak territory, You have Riften. Big deal we have Solitude, we have Whiterun, we have Markarth, everyone of these cities produces food and has farms. Stop telling out right lies, I'm sick of reading this crap.

 

This quote was directed to me. I had explained my position before, admittedly, it was well before you joined this conversation. However, instead of asking for my opinion, you immediatly called my arguement 'garbage' and asserted you were 'sick of reading this crap'. Admittedly, I'm not sure if you had previously commented on the point, and I had missed it. However, i was still offended by this type of terminology.

 

 

And we're not going to admit defeat time for you guys to go run back to Windhelm and hide, let the men handle this.

 

I may not be a fit man, and I may be a pacifist (as much as possible). But I am a man nonetheless, and I'd prefer you don't question my manhood.

 

We're worth it, go back to Ulfric and try to fix him. But ya'll don't fix things or take on any responsibility you would much rather whine and run to your room like little children than stand a fight for what Talos wanted.

 

You implied I was a child, when I am defiantly not. I try to keep my arguements reasonable and academic, and above childishness.

 

Ohhhhhh boo-hoo-hoo it's awful *sniffle* it's so awful, why does life have to be so hard boo-hoo-hoo, I just want to live but I don't want to be a part of the solution boo-hoo-hoo

 

Now, lol normally I don't even take posts like this seriously.

 

Now that was simply blantently insulting. I don't think i need to explain this.

 

I also acknowledge that I had intentionally used firm statements to try and tell you to not be so aggressive. I feel that I need to assert that I am here for intellectual discussion, and needed to try and make you recognise this forum does not put up with flaming, unlike other parts of the internet.

Edited March 9, 2013 by RighthandofSithis