Fallout 4-Normal and Specular Maps

[gernash]

OK. I have to apoligize to 32cm about his mod: Rust in peace - cars by 32cm

 

Apparently I'm An IDIOT!

the issue I've been having is to do with the Nvidia control panel

 

#6 http://forum.step-project.com/public/style_images/step/icon_share.png Gernash

Here is alink to ingame pic

 

ARRRG at least I know how to get bump maps and roughness maps for complex pics now........

 

So yea now I can "see" textures the Rust in peace mod looks great!!!! did I say ARRRGGGG already?

Edited August 22, 2016 by gernash

[gernash]

Playing further with textures I've come across a couple of issues that drive me batty (well just how the game seems to handle textures or implement them)

 

1: Some texture in FO4 are just "hanging" in mid air i.e leaf on tree/ground Debris in the default texture they seem to have the texture on a transparent layer so it's not so apparent (but still visible if you know what your looking for) that there is no light reflection to the underside.
Reading 3d modeling forums they talk about double sided diffusion and normal maps or "flipping" them.
Is that something that can me done to texture maps? I've not been able to see any information anywhere if it's a thing.

(issue I have is If I generate i decent bump map it becomes very apparent the underside has no reflection i.e. black areas on the texture)

 

2: Large Static objects like cliff, rock edges, roads (potholes/edging)etc they have a Edge map for where the 2 planes meet with an alpha that when looking at it seems to have a transitional gradient to blend the 2 textures but if the alpha is any less than 100% opacity it immediately shows the overlapping layer.

Is there a way to create a seamless texture from a mesh or find how the textures are being called to wrap the object and perhaps adjust the blended zones.

 

If anyone knows of a forum that discuss these sorts of things or ballpark tutorial on locating color map layout with FO4 meshes and how to make wrapped maps (I only have a very basic blender skills) would be appreciated.

[JesterDoobie]

I use GIMP 2 with the built-in .DDS file exporter to export dxt5 files with generated mipmaps for Whatever_diffuse.dds files, then delete the alpha (if any, it's strictly greyscale transparency ) and use the filter==>Map==>Normalmap function, then export as bct (NOT bct+) _normal.dds files, again with mipmaps, works like a charm. _Specular.dds files with mipmaps the same as _n's, after tweaking them to satisfaction as you are familiar with for spec maps, greyscale and desaturate and all that, then export as bct (not bct+) and any alpha is a lost layer, FO4 don't see it for _normal OR _specular files afaik. I remove it from mine entirely before normalmapping susally, and fill any "dead zones" in my files with the generic "blue" of the background if I don't, "black" and "white" do weird things. I use quotes cuz normalmapping an obj also removes the blue layer, nothing is actually blue or black or green. You can also play with some of the layer info before exporting, increasing red increases "metalness", green is something like subsurface, if I understand right. Be careful, as objects like to "break" ingame doing that. Also the Intel thingy isn'y removing the alpha, afaik there literally IS none to remove, that's all. FO4 _n and _s files are both just red and green channels. Afaik, game always seems to throw some exception to a rule at you when modding, and my _specular mappings are kinda cruddy still, but that's just my art skills or lack of same, afaik, not the procedure to make the art.

 

Black areas on your object otherwise colored ok usually means incorrect texture placement, it's showing black cuz there IS black there at the xy of the .dds file it uses. Workaround is to try adding transparency/alpha layer to your .dds file and deleting all the black to make it transparent then exporting as dxt5 and generated mipmaps, but depending on the object nif's shader/alpha settings this might or might not work. If it's at the border and it works on the right object at the border, it'll solve the overlapping issue. You can't really adjust the UVmap of an object (which is what you describe wanting to do) after you bake it into a nif, afaik, there's no texture that does exactly that you can edit in photoshop/dds editing software. That's 3d modelling work, Blender with the right nif plugin or 3DSMAX 2013x64. You CAN tweak the uv offset thru shader controls in Nifskope but that's only if you know exactly how to crunch the #'s to point to your texture's xy and how to setup the shader controllers, which I don't, exactly.

[gernash]

YA, I figured it's a mesh issue and the accompanying object file. I noticed the "Issue" persists with vanilla objects so I plan to invest some time with nifscope and Blender (do not have access to 3D MAX) and see if I can work out meshes and texture wrapping (rather then the slap on process that's currently in game), feels like alot of effort for a 2ndary object that will look cool but it's dirt.....

Oh well something new to play with.

 

Most of the normal maps (with landscape) are not generated from the Diff map in game they seem to be made from a hand drawn pic that emphasizes certain parts then the "color" map is applied.

Red is reflection and green is roughness (or gloss if you like) the alpha I'm talking about is in the Diff map and with landscape textures it appears to be OCC on some textures and others it's a layer mask for transparency or water collision (I assume that call is in the material list in the mesh(Um jonson file? I have not played with it yet so unsure of terminology))

 

The Black I saw on Fallenleafs01_d was the bottom of the texture on an intersecting plane (the scrap stuff in sanctuary) the black on the shadow side was gloss related as there seems to be a OCC aspect to a texture generated from the combined spec map when the alpha is used as a transparency layer.......ARRRRRGGGG I'm hoping it's all becomes a Light BULB moment when I dig into meshes.

[TrickyVein]

You can edit UVs in NifSkope, just not with all of the bells and whistles like in a 3D program. Get the latest version.

 

For landscape textures, make a layer from the background and set it above another layer filled with 100% black. See anything? The CK has a material editor.

 

The engine has always been utterly incapable of combining more than one texture source into a single channel. You can't blend from Texture01.dds into Texture02.dds in the diffuse slot for one material using a gradient, or two materials together for that matter across the same face. An exception to this would be applying a directional material, or like how things are covered with snow in Skyrim.

[gernash]

Ahhh, at the 3rd paragraph....

 

Well as a example the Mountain or boulders are made up of separate meshes joined together to make an object I should be able to extract a mesh and generate a New single warped texture with connecting edges and use it as a replacer to the in game mesh?

That is my hope with mountains and roads (potholes).

[TrickyVein]

Meshes are separated precisely because they use different materials. Materials cannot be combined. Which is why a .nif has separate, children NiTriShapes. One for each material.

 

If you wanted to combine NiTriShapes into one mesh which takes only one material, you would have to create new UVs for the mesh and create a new texture for it as well, which is eminently impractical and makes zero sense to do.

Edited September 17, 2016 by TrickyVein

[CaptainCockerel]

Hi gernash! Thought that dpi thing sounded familiar. ;)

 

You won't be editing static meshes unless you get your users to use the INI edit "bUseCombinedObjects=0" which gives a performance hit. At least I think that is what you are saying with the "as a replacer to the in game mesh" line?

[gernash]

@ SparrowPrince

Yea, like FlaconOil's Greebs and the Lattices as an example. Performance hit well I'm doing it more as a "learning" experience and the people that would use this sort of texture are in the upper end of the GPU spectrum.

DPI drives me mad int the head, I'm hoping the secret is in the mesh or these "NiTriShapes" Unicorns. Like Brown, you paint something a cretin type of brown it Becomes a Water placement thing I'm assuming at this point it's the "directional material" as per snow in skyrim thingy (on the list to work out)

 

 

@TrickyVein

 

The terminology you have used I'm unaware of but gimme a week to "talk the talk" Are there any process overview guides for nifscope, meshes, NiTriShapes or anything else in that world so it's not so chilly when you dip your toe in? (I have found a blender object to FO4, creation to placement guide) I've looked at the CK as well but It's quite alien to me as well so watching many different how to type guides to get more of a feel for it.

[Deleted15964729User]

@ SparrowPrince

Yea, like FlaconOil's Greebs and the Lattices as an example. Performance hit well I'm doing it more as a "learning" experience and the people that would use this sort of texture are in the upper end of the GPU spectrum.

DPI drives me mad int the head, I'm hoping the secret is in the mesh or these "NiTriShapes" Unicorns. Like Brown, you paint something a cretin type of brown it Becomes a Water placement thing I'm assuming at this point it's the "directional material" as per snow in skyrim thingy (on the list to work out)

 

 

@TrickyVein

 

The terminology you have used I'm unaware of but gimme a week to "talk the talk" Are there any process overview guides for nifscope, meshes, NiTriShapes or anything else in that world so it's not so chilly when you dip your toe in? (I have found a blender object to FO4, creation to placement guide) I've looked at the CK as well but It's quite alien to me as well so watching many different how to type guides to get more of a feel for it.

 

 

In regards to Nifskope overviews I think these are excellent:

 

NifSkope Basics #1: The Interface

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PssnKNWYjGo

 

NifSkope Basics #2: Dissecting a Simple Nif

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cK3-XxQWxMA