Pretty Pack - First Alpha Release!

[darthsloth74]

 

I am aware that there are a couple of textures that really don't look particularly good -- not necessarily because they break the art direction, but because they've lost definition instead of gained it. These will be removed in the next release until we can find better replacements. But things won't be perfect with the first few releases, and this is still a sort of pre-release. If you, or anyone else sees textures in this pack they don't think are up to par, please let us know so we can work on fixing them.

 

Well to offer useful feedback the only things that just didn't work as well as they should were:

 

1. The rocks. really well textured but due to the horrible way Bethesda have mapped the UV's I noticed a lot of texture stretching in areas. Due to the texture being so good this problem was really noticeable to me. Looks fantastic on distant cliffs etc. I don't blame the author at all, because the work is great.

 

2. Windhelm. I noticed on the city walls that the detail level seems to pop too fast. Hopefully you know what I mean, maybe its the mip maps, maybe its the way the game handles it but it was very noticeable. A lot of the Windhelm textures are really nice but some are still awful. Mainly where walls and pavement have snow on them, the alpha channel that I assume controls the snow blend transition looks very blocky.

 

3. Loved everything else.

 

Not sure if you'd be interested but when its totally complete if you'd like to include my Monk and Mage robes pack, PM me and let me know. Not sure if you actually want clothes or not doing or you're just sticking to environmental textures. I would have volunteered to contribute to the mod when I read the original post however the thing is I'm not so good with groups. I like to do things mainly by myself in fear of not completing work and letting people down. Plus I don't like the stress I get when people ask when stuff is going to be finished, just my experience in the past.

[Shaikoten]

Thanks for the feedback. Not much that can be done about the first point, I'm afraid, but if anyone comes up with a solution we'll be sure to implement it. Wonky terrain comes with the territory in Bethesda games. I'll look into the Windhelm stuff and let Nebula know about it. Compared to Vanilla I haven't really noticed much of a difference in the mipmapping between the two, but I may not be looking hard enough!

 

I saw your Yosolda outfit retextures and was really impressed. I know from experience, it's definitely kind of painstaking to do those minute textile details. The other robe textures you worked on are great, but with the use of the oblivion logos and addition of runes and that sort of stuff, I think they fall more under a reimagining than a simply an improved texture, so I think it would be against the vision of the project to include them. But yes, if you'd approve of us including the Yosolda outfit and any others you work on that fit our criteria, I'd be happy to add them in this project. It doesn't need to be a complete pack to be included.

 

Don't let the group intimidate you. It's really been extremely loose so far and I think it will probably stay that way. I come from other, more established modding communities and I thought there would be a lot more IRC, chatting, and comprehensive forum posts in the Skyrim scene. Turns out that's not the case, but it's possible to be quite productive without them. Just shoot me a PM if you release something new and I'll be happy to add it. No pressure, no claiming anything. It'll all get done eventually I'm sure!

[darthsloth74]

Thanks but actually I meant in regard to the Mage/Monk set not the Necromancer and Black mage robes I initially did.

 

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1548

 

The only difference in this set is red trim on the black robes and the necromancer oblivion logo instead of the green skull. Everything else sticks to vanilla. Blue robes are more blue because the description in game is that they are blue and Bethesda made them grey which is a little silly. If the pack interests you it would be very little work to give the necro robes a green skull and remove the black robes red trim.

 

Obviously I want to finish the pack off completely first before including it in another mod. I am also redoing all the DB armour at high res and the vast majority of the vanilla clothing which will stick to the vanilla style, the Yosolda texture will become part of that set. Its a lot of work but thankfully necKros has offered to help me with the workload.

 

I'll PM when things are further along. Thanks getting back to me. :)

[Ghogiel]

To reiterate what darthsloth74 is saying. But I will not be pulling punches in my critique here...

 

the entire windhelm folder needs to be fixed IMO.

 

Missing mipmaps. shortly if you do not make them then you leave it to the game to down sample the texture in real time, from the full res image. Which takes more computational power than sampling from one of the pre-created mipmaps. < which you have the entire arsenal of Photoshop at your disposal to create and tweak, instead of leaving it to the cpu to do for you at real time. And it looks like ASS when you start to view LOD tiling patterns into the mix. *grumbles*

 

Totally blank white alpha channels added to all diffuse textures unnecessarily bloating the textures file size, and thus memory load by x2. :facepalm: major avoidable error no one should ever make.

 

Example: 500wall_n.dd. Open it. Open original. blow up orginal to 2048. WHTBBQ... I don't even... VERY DISAPOINTED that someone pretty much did that from a COMPRESSED 512 texture. then simply overlayed itself, remember this is already compressed once, just to, imo, unnecessarily pop the existing detail, which was popped enough I think, but more to the point, what was overlayed was full of compression artefacts and that had been blown up all the way from 512. then finally... drum roll please.... compressed again! :facepalm:

 

Specular maps have been reduced to a pile of garbage. Even the vanilla ones are superior. Thes were saved as DXT3 no doubt... but even then the concept of a specular maps function seems to have been missed on the texture in question.

 

In short, this is indicative of the very s*** we are supposed to be avoiding. It has to be re worked entirely from the ground up.

[Ghogiel]

I think outwall_n is mislabelled.. it should be outwalluv_n.dds.....

 

 

I have to stop now, you get the point.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Ghogiel

[darthsloth74]

Ghogiel: Wow you really don't pull punches do you? I promise I won't enlarge stuff and sharpen ever! ;)

 

Seriously though compressing a texture and compressing again is total insanity and really hurts the mod with that kind of shoddy workflow. To be honest you don't see Chris2012 pulling that kind of stunt with Whiterun do you?

 

Although I do appreciate the amount of work involved I counted 125 textures for Solitude alone. You really need someone who is keen enough and skilled enough to do the majority of city textures, so the quality is retained. Which means the complete fool, I mean very dedicated person would have to be totally committed. :P

 

I'm not sure what the Riften texture set is like I've downloaded it but not checked it out in game yet. Anyone know if that is of any use?

[Ghogiel]

And this is why you respect when some does go through 500 textures and it is done well.

 

If you think I am being anal, check the alpha channel in whfrontgate_n.dds. It speaks for itself

 

 

Whiterun folder you say.... I'll be back with my critique on that... :tongue:

In the archive, WRcitywall01 tiled so horrifically, can it be said it tiles if you simply mirror the ends like that...? the normal map has a tiling seam as well. :ermm:

Edited December 6, 2011 by Ghogiel

[Shaikoten]

darthsloth74:

 

Yeah, everything that sticks to vanilla in that pack is gorgeous. Heck, even the old oblivion logo looks a hell of a lot better than the necromancer skull in the game. I always kind of hated the green logo. But we should probably stick with the Skyrim style logo just for the sake of accuracy/canon reasons, so if you do end up swapping them I'll definitely add that in.

 

Ghogiel:

 

Thank you for this, seriously. I hadn't opened any of the textures from Nebula's stuff in photoshop yet, and I see what you mean now. The technical commentary is immensely useful. Do you think any of his work is salvageable? Like is it just the Windhelm stuff that suffers? How about the terrain? The Whiterun stuff is a little hit or miss too, and overall I'd much prefer to use Chris2012's work, but currently I don't think he's interested in contributing.

[darthsloth74]

Ghogiel is definately right the alpha channel is terrible it looks like white noise, kind of the look you get when your TV goes off at 3.00 in the morning, well before digital that is. :)

 

That example is really bad and to be quite honest its clear that if Ghogiel has investigated this which its apparent he has then its a problem. And no Ghogiel I didn't think you were being anal at all, I was just suprised how to the point you were, but you were very right too.

 

In regard to Whiterun I did mean the Chris2012 stuff is the Whiterun stuff in this mod different? I haven't been to Whiterun since I tried the pack.

 

Awesome Fallout 3 textures Ghogiel. Makes me want to install the game again.

 

Incidentally I tried dirkduggler's textures and I thought they were very good. Of course thats only my own preference:

 

http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=1900

Edited December 6, 2011 by darthsloth74

[Ghogiel]

Salvageable, Not really from my perspective tbh.

The work it would take to actually do anything would be wasted as you could avoid fixing errors totally and actually just make good textures. And many of the textures are total right offs, like the specs and the normal maps in many cases can simply be substituted for the vanilla ones, as that is all that they are in the end, just blown up a lot and popped a bit, but popped in a way that compounds the compression artefacts that are already in the texture.

 

I'll make one of these wall maps and see what I can do.. can't talk the talk and not walk the walk innit. I did stuff for F3, where I made high poly models and baked off my maps to a plane.. For stuff like that I don't accept poor substitutes.

 

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/imageshare/image.php?id=11570

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/imageshare/image.php?id=11571