make our own creation software

[GFHuber]

Since Skyrim is based von FO3 and not on TES4 it would seme more liklie to jurryrig the G.E.C.K. to work. rumor has it that some allready done that... sadly iÄm not one of them. As of late i have alo tof problems geting geck to work with NV... thx Obsidian...

But maybe one of you know how to change a few code lines in the Geck to load Skyrim.esm instead of the Fallouts.

[masamune30]

guys as i said in the OP i understand it would be a lot of work, to answer one question about writing it all in assembly, it is the language im most confortable with and i could get a extremely effecient code working very quickly with it. if you are going to stand around and tell me how bad my idea is then leave. im asking for help developing and for HELPFUL ideas.

i am not doing this out of pure impatience, im doing it to make a point to bethsda and other gameing companies and so i can become a better programmer personaly.

 

to respond to te mention of legal trouble from bethsda, if this is not allowed then neither is modding, in fact if making my own modding system is going to piss them off then they are complete hypocrites. i am fully prepared to take on any legal nonsense they intend to throw at me.

 

update on info: im probobly to program in D unless any potential devs have an issue il get started in an hour.

 

This is not impatience it is just ridiculous, this would take literally forever if possible to do at all, just wait for the CK. They did not let us down either if you read the blog, they are cookin a sumtin up for us so chill out, sit back, and play the game until then.

 

cooking somthing up for us usualy means adding in features like the steam stuff, when we have sites like this one the steam othing is just another way to make sure we stay dependant on them for our mods.

Edited December 3, 2011 by masamune30

[nandchan]

Instead of creating a new creation software to bypass any restrictions the devil might put on us, I think it's better to wait for the official CS and then crack it where/if needed.

 

Edit: Did I say the devil? Sorry, I meant Valve.

Edited December 3, 2011 by nandchan

[Ghogiel]

I don't think there will be any legal issues. unless every modding tool like bsa extrators, OBMM, tes4edit, anything than can write data to an esp, etc are all going to get shot down...

 

I wish you luck on you efforts is about the only thing I can offer though.

[hexorcist]

Actually, this is something I've been considering looking into since the news that Steam would be integrated into the CK. It's not a bad idea, and it would take a long time - honestly, I don't care about time frame as long as I don't have to deal with Steam. The major issue right now is file formats. They're not fully understood and if they go the way Oblivion did, many things about some files (ie: save games) will never be understood - at least, to date. That should be the starting point in my opinion - go help Rick and the others at UESP figure out the file formats.

 

"Legal issues" with something like this are non-existent, that's why I've been able to create tools for modding games that "do not allow" modding. One example would be Fable 3. Lionhead pretty much hates modders, but we still mod their games because they can't stop us - I even go on Lionhead's official forums and poke them in the eye about modding their games (no proxy). We are truly lucky that Bethesda does love modders though, otherwise this would be too much of a PITA to consider at this point. However, as long as you do not utilize any of their published data (ie: strings from the strings files, bsa file content, etc) you can pretty much do whatever you like as far as writing tools for the game goes -- with one stipulation, you can't mess with the DRM on the exe, which this project shouldn't. If you want to discuss details surrounding legal ramifications about it feel free to message me (note: if you're not a US citizen then I probably wont be able to detail much for you unfortunately - UK citizens can probably message me also, if it's too specific I'll say so).

 

As for developing such a tool, I wouldn't be able to go full-time on something like that because of family needs but if you need a little light-work done here and there I'd be happy to help where I can.

[hexorcist]

Instead of creating a new creation software to bypass any restrictions the devil might put on us, I think it's better to wait for the official CS and then crack it where/if needed.

 

This is not feasible on the legal side of things, unless things go differently than I expect. With the integration of Steam means that the CK should have DRM attached, and no matter how you do it, meddling with the DRM of an exe is prohibited by law. If the DRM is not on the .exe then there's one option where this can work, if someone creates a tool to disable the Steam integration then it would be legal -- but you can _not_ release the patched .exe, you would have to release the tool instead.

 

(Note: By "on the exe" I mean if the DRM exists at all with the software.)

Edited December 3, 2011 by hexorcist

[nandchan]

Instead of creating a new creation software to bypass any restrictions the devil might put on us, I think it's better to wait for the official CS and then crack it where/if needed.

 

This is not feasible on the legal side of things, unless things go differently than I expect. With the integration of Steam means that the CK should have DRM attached, and no matter how you do it, meddling with the DRM of an exe is prohibited by law. If the DRM is not on the .exe then there's one option where this can work, if someone creates a tool to disable the Steam integration then it would be legal -- but you can _not_ release the patched .exe, you would have to release the tool instead.

 

(Note: By "on the exe" I mean if the DRM exists at all with the software.)

 

As long as you don't actually publish the crack I don't see where the problem is. On the .esp end of things I doubt it would be possible to distinguish between a cracked CS and a DRM-raped CS. Legal issues on actually uploading the crack for this project can easily be bypassed: Encryption, TOR networks, plausible deniability (it's just an image!), restrictive “licenses” which force you to use something for study purposes only etc. - it's all been done before for other public cracking projects.

Edited December 3, 2011 by nandchan

[natula123]

This is not impatience it is just ridiculous, this would take literally forever if possible to do at all, just wait for the CK. They did not let us down either if you read the blog, they are cookin a sumtin up for us so chill out, sit back, and play the game until then.

 

Cookin something up?

Please I am intrigued. Explain....

More patch I presume?

[hexorcist]

As long as you don't actually publish the crack I don't see where the problem is. On the .esp end of things I doubt it would be possible to distinguish between a cracked CS and a DRM-raped CS. Legal issues on actually uploading the crack for this project can easily be bypassed: Encryption, TOR networks, plausible deniability (it's just an image!), restrictive “licenses” which force you to use something for study purposes only etc. - it's all been done before for other public cracking projects.

 

As I stated in my first reply to you, meddling with DRM in any way is illegal. It does not matter if you claim "it's just an image!", use encryption, etc, it is still illegal. Reverse engineering is one thing (figuring out how it works), actively bypassing it is a completely different set of rules.

 

Edit: Further reading

Edited December 3, 2011 by hexorcist

[nandchan]

As long as you don't actually publish the crack I don't see where the problem is. On the .esp end of things I doubt it would be possible to distinguish between a cracked CS and a DRM-raped CS. Legal issues on actually uploading the crack for this project can easily be bypassed: Encryption, TOR networks, plausible deniability (it's just an image!), restrictive “licenses” which force you to use something for study purposes only etc. - it's all been done before for other public cracking projects.

 

As I stated in my first reply to you, meddling with DRM in any way is illegal. It does not matter if you claim "it's just an image!", use encryption, etc, it is still illegal. Reverse engineering is one thing (figuring out how it works), actively bypassing it is a completely different set of rules.

 

I'm going to go ahead and assume we live in different countries with different legal systems and barriers. Before this discussion gets locked, I will cease my conversation on the topic - we should first wait until January to see how bad it really is, then we can begin discussing (possibly legal loophole-abusing) alternatives.

 

Let's just hope for the best for now. I still don't think it's appropriate to go ahead and try to create a modding software from scratch without even knowing what the threat looks like - hell, those folks at Nexus are having enough problems creating a mod managing software, let alone creation.