THE ART OF THE PREMATURE RELEASE

[StannieDum]

... no, the topic is about delaying the game for bug squashing.. which i find as silly since once the a delayed game was released, the early released game would have been at the same point in its version anyhow,.. so whats the point?

I havent seen any proper reasoning to this yet other than people dont like to see bugs in the eariler release and would rather not play period until later when the game would have been patched up anyhow

 

The reasoning is ridiculously simple and was there to see in my original post if you looked.

 

The public are paying money in a legally binding consumer/retailer contract for the purchase of goods in an knowingly incomplete state in (for argument's sake) November - instead of paying for goods in a completed state in (for arguments sake) the following March.

 

 

Stannie

Edited December 3, 2011 by StannieDum

[El`derina]

if you guys really can't handle your bugs that much you should have waited,.. we all knew the game would release with bugs

You don't get the point, do you? We do not talk about small bugs. We talk about the gamebreaking bugs. Youve had none? Good! You are one of the few.

PS3 players couldn't play.

Some major quest was bugged.

Some NPC died that shouldn't.

 

These are not small bugs, they are bugs forcing you to lay down the game. That is unproffesional done, and they also had the CK unfinished: so WE couldn't fix it. They also went to vecation after TOO much work, due to THEIR deadline. Now this means MORE pain for us, and MORE work for them. NOBODY earned anything. This is not an MMO, so 1 month delay would lose them nothing.

 

On a timetable, we'd reach the same spot rather it was delayed or not. Even if it was delayed, theres some bugs they know of now which wouldnt have been discovered.

Somehow I think if the game was delayed, you'd all ask for further delaying again.

No, YOU would reach the same point. Some players can't play, or just could play. NOT because of small bugs, but because of GAME BREAKING bugs.

 

Can I say it more obvious? ... do I need more caps? Maybe some bold text?

look you had a point about angering players over it and losing fans but-. since you insist to turn an all encomposing topic to just Skyrim...

I am not sure how to even respond to this, CK wouldnt fix most those bugs(and certainly not on consoles) and you'd be denying those that can play a chance to do so...

also,.. you seem to be asking Bethesda to be psychic,.. I wonder if they would have ran into the same issues even with a delay after the port?

 

If the game works perfectly in some cases, and has gamebreaking issues in others... is it ready yet? this still goes back to, how many times would you have them delay... if they knew it would turn out like this, maybe they would have *shrug*

 

in any case,.. the issue of them delaying the game or not because of bugs(gamebreaking or not), becomes a mute point when they created bugs themselves without meaning to >.>

bethesda screwed up, that doesnt apply to every game made. Patches are coming- which only proves my point... you had the game, you got to play it early,.. granted it wasnt as 'fixed' as you would have liked before release, but at least its getting there fast... im not so sure your month delayed would help any in this regard... it'd be at the same point as a month of patching the released game is gonna be at,.. and in regards to ports and other problems beth caused, probally even alittle backwards.

 

how would that be then? playing not only a month delayed but also with many of the same issues?

I said before... we are delving more and more into an area where there is no right answer...

[Matth85]

I am not sure how to even respond to this, CK wouldnt fix most those bugs(and certainly not on consoles) and you'd be denying those that can play a chance to do so...

They would fix enough, and the feeling that somebody is happening means a lot. As of now we only get patches where we get screwed over, since we are bound to Steam. If I knew we had 5 modders working in the CK, I'd feel a lot better.

Besides, then Bethesda could focus on gamebreaking bugs, and check how the modder fixed the less important bug, and that saves them work.

 

also,.. you seem to be asking Bethesda to be psychic

Not phsycic, prepared. I want them to test the most obvious thing, like quest not working for some, and the fact the PS3 players had major lagg. Things that never should have happened. Smaller bug is up to us to find, and that is why they patch the game.

 

If the game works perfectly in some cases, and has gamebreaking issues in others... is it ready yet? this still goes back to, how many times would you have them delay... if they knew it would turn out like this, maybe they would have *shrug*

If they knew of gamebreaking bugs, they should not release the game. It's like me making you a car, where something doesn't work. That would cause more stress on both parts, and lose more than gained.

All of the big bugs are quick to fix. But now we also demand the CK, and small bugs fixed. Suddently Bethesda got twice the work, since they set a date a year in advance.

 

in any case,.. the issue of them delaying the game or not because of bugs(gamebreaking or not), becomes a mute point when they created bugs themselves without meaning to >.>

A gamebreaking bug is, well, game breaking. A game should have none of thoose. Minor bug is expected, and we can live with it, and PC players can get them fixed. That is not the problem.

 

 

bethesda screwed up, that doesnt apply to every game made

This is not generally about bethesda, but most games.

Look at Dragon Age 2 as a good example. Terrible game comared to Origins. Why? It was rushed. It wasn't ready by about 3 years. Look at Skyrim. Well done, but a few bugs should have been out if they would forget their pride and just delay it by 1 month.

 

Patches are coming- which only proves my point... you had the game, you got to play it early,.. granted it wasnt as 'fixed' as you would have liked before release, but at least its getting there fast... im not so sure your month delayed would help any in this regard... it'd be at the same point as a month of patching the released game is gonna be at,.. and in regards to ports and other problems beth caused, probally even alittle backwards.

 

And now we must live with the bugs, waiting for a chance to get them fixed. There is a different in having it and waiting, than just waiting. If the game wasn't out yet, I would look at the date, and forget about it untill release. Now we wait every day for stuff to be fixed. We just recently got the date of the Ck, and that was a major relief! Now I don't have to look here every day.

 

My point is simle: A early product means more waiting. Which means more stress for Bethesda because the fans are getting pissed. That in turn means they need to work faster. Remember, they worked overtime for a whole month to get the game out early. Now they need to work another month because console needs bug fixed ASAP, and the PC needs the CK ASAP. This is extra work for them, and more painfully waiting for us.

 

Nobody gains on it, nobody. THAT is my point. The producer of a game does not gain anything in a not-finished product, and we certainly doesn't. What is more alarming, is that more and more games is getting our half-finished. However, only a handfull got a toolkit so WE can fix it.

It is a loss - loss situation as of now, and that is alarming. This is not an MMO, so releasing a month later does not lose money. We could have waited half a year more without problems, we still had Oblivion and Morrowind. We had The Witcher 2 and Deus Ex to play on for a few more months. But instead we got Skyrim at the right time. Now we got the amazing game! That a few people couldn't play, and the most annoying bugs that you can't fix, since they cidn't have time to make the CK.

 

I hope I managed to make myself clear here. Being tired and all ;)

 

Cheers,

Matth

[El`derina]

The reasoning is ridiculously simple and was there to see in my original post if you looked.

 

The public are paying money in a legally binding consumer/retailer contract for the purchase of goods in an knowingly incomplete state in (for argument's sake) November - instead of paying for goods in a completed state in (for arguments sake) the following March.

 

 

Stannie

 

which leads back to, how does this effect you?

you got the game early... were able to play the game early (maybe not in some cases)

you got early patches to fix most of the gamebreaking issues instead of waiting all those months,.. with smaller issues taken care of before and after the alternative(as your example) March release.

 

I do fail to understand you here... you don't trust bethesda(or whatever said company) to do their patches fast enough to make the game into the same quality it would be otherwise within the same time frame in a delayed version?

It's not like buying a half made house, as you'd probally put it.. or a 3 track album as you DID put it, vastly different.

 

maybe if you cleared that up i'd understand better.. but I dont see earlier access to the game as in anyway a hinderment when the player has the choice to wait 'anyhow'

 

@Matt

All I really understood is that you think bethesda shoulda delayed for the sake of people who can't stand to have the game with gamebreaking bugs... which in itself is reasonable. But this issue's resolving around Skyrim go beyond just that. Not like this was done on purpose and it's being addressed in a timely fashion, probally sooner than your idea of a delayed skyrim would have been.

I'll say again,.. IF bethesda could have predicted this, which they can't, this might not have happened like this.... it may very well still have happened with a delay since many of the issues came from poor porting and many issues werent found out by bethesda.

this is a NO right answer area... I am sorry but I can't see eye to eye on your feelings with this matter.

 

but you know... i said I was pulling out and then I didnt.. I am sorry to have bothered you. Good-day.

Edited December 3, 2011 by El`derina

[Jaypaul97]

I don't get it. What's OP trying to say? Why you no make sense?

[Matth85]

I don't get it. What's OP trying to say? Why you no make sense?

 

In short? More and more companies release game too early.

Too early release does more harm than benefit.

He pointed it out and is alarmed by it. Read the discussion, and you will understand why.

 

It can't give more sense than that.

[StannieDum]

Thanks, Matth85. That's basically what I was about to post. :) Not sure what was confusing him there.

[Guss]

I think they are. We need to let the makers fix the bugs or whatever if the game needs to be released later so be it. but i see it as if people complain we want the game now don't care about bugs/etc or whatever and end up making the release sooner " annoying them so much ". idk if its true but thats what i see. :unsure: Edited December 3, 2011 by Guss

[Nekrafilia]

 

THE ART OF THE PREMATURE RELEASE[/b]

Are games arbitrarily released too early?

 

I would like to discuss what I believe is a very worrying trend in the gaming world today.

<snip long winded post>

 

Sorry to break the news, but this "trend" started the moment the then "fledgling" internet started way back in the 90's. Heck, even before then when when one could dial (yes, dial. Remember 1200 baud modems?) into bulletin boards and download patches for various games.

 

This "trend" has been going on for nearly 20 years already. It's more of an entrenched business mindset these days. Get the product to 90%, get the money in and we can finish it off at leisure (bonus: get heaps of volume beta testing done for free!).

[Matth85]

This "trend" has been going on for nearly 20 years already. It's more of an entrenched business mindset these days. Get the product to 90%

The problem is: Games today are big. Before you had a game released, and it was as it was. Now, you need to patch it.

What happens when you got 500 000 pissed off customers that nags you to fix it? Yeah, no vecation for you.

How is no vecation after a hardcore month of overtime? Yeah, bad.

Who gains from this? Nobody.

 

There really is no reason to smoothen the issue. This trend is getting worse, and there is no logical explenation for it. Back on the N64 and PS2 you didn't update games. Today you do, and we got higher expectations. Why take a shortcut, than in the end gives you more work?