The US justice system.

[HeyYou]

The US spends billions of dollars per year trying to stop pot from coming in to the country, even though a significant percentage of it is already grown here. We also spend huge piles of cash housing prisoners that were busted with piddling amounts, and their sole crime was possession. We are targeting the wrong group here.

 

Marijuana is less harmful to the human body than alcohol. However, it has economic repercussions that various industries don't want to see happen. Therefore, there is corporate pressure to keep it illegal. It seems that people didn't learn a damn thing from prohibition back in the 20's, that banning a substance that has a broad user-base, actually has the net affect of INCREASING crime. It has also been noted that legalizing various drugs actually saw a DECLINE in use. (especially among teenagers...... imagine that. )

 

Look at the number of people that are killed by alcohol, that have never in their life taken a drink. A day doesn't go by here in the small town I live in, that I don't see at least THREE drunk driving arrests. I have buried more friends due to alcohol, some were their consumption, most were someone elses..... than ANY other cause. None of them were caused by pot. Not one.

 

Yet alcohol is legal, and pot is not.

 

Weird how these discussions get off the ground. If people don't want an ethical version of the argument then the fact that substance prohibition does not work well should be enough. It's funny how people miss the 20's analogy or don't think it is analogous to begin with. The higher risk created more demand for alchohol and does the same for 'drugs'. There is much more profit to be made if it is dangerous and hard to come by, just the market at work. Also not to be forgotten is the fact that there are lobbyists working hard to keep alchohol readily available, whereas no such phenomenon exists for marijuana or other drugs. Cigarettes are another one. At the end of the day it's more an issue of whoever gives head to the government than anything else. Just arbitrary...

 

I think too many folks still think "Reefer Madness" was an accurate documentary....... :D

[Sepherose]

Honestly my opinion on the system here is that it is broken, and I think that this is something that should be brought up as well.

[HeyYou]

Honestly my opinion on the system here is that it is broken, and I think that this is something that should be brought up as well.

 

Yeah, I am FROM michigan, and I voted for that guy.... (Levin) That ain't gonna happen again.

[Sepherose]

Honestly my opinion on the system here is that it is broken, and I think that this is something that should be brought up as well.

 

Yeah, I am FROM michigan, and I voted for that guy.... (Levin) That ain't gonna happen again.

 

It's bad when you feel terrified by your own government. :unsure:

[Beriallord]

A good portion of the illegal drug sales are Marijuana, which is the most popular drug in the US. If they legalized/taxed just that then it would remove the criminal unsavory aspect from controlling the supply of that market. Criminal organizations like the Mexican drug cartels would lose out big time. There are also many industrial and practical uses for Hemp, which farmers could grow as a cash crop. Ending the prohibition put the organized crime organizations built around running liquor out of business.

[ginnyfizz]

I have nothing against the poor... someone has to do the menial labor in any society, may as well be the least intelligent and skilled among us.

So either you think "the poor" are all stupid and unskilled, or you just put that sentence at the end of the paragraph for kicks.

 

Are you more willing to offend against compassion or grammar?

 

The poor are either not intelligent or skilled, or have incredibly low willpower and self-esteem. Just calling it how it is. If someone wants something better, try harder, or at least do the best you can, and if one does that and is still struggling, then they have my compassion. Its possible someone can be both intelligent and skilled, but has very low self-esteem and confidence that they just don't even try, as a result, they are poor because of their own will or lack of.

 

What an arrogant and misinformed sweeping generalization. I am currently unemployed, so I am therefore poor. Despite the impression that such as Ghogiel would like to portray to the contrary, I am also pretty damned bright according to both MENSA and the university that awarded me a first class degree. Furthermore I have a lot of office skills and practical experience to back up the academic side of the equation. I am doing my damnedest to get another job, despite the fact that my state of health restricts what I can do as well as the fact that I have to have hours that enable me to carry out my other duties as a carer for my Mum, who has Alzheimers.

 

Now YOU try repeated redundancies for a knock to your self esteem, as I have done. YOU try working with the long term unemployed (as I latterly did) whose jobs have disappeared, who may have been in the same job for twenty odd years and have no clue where to start.

 

Don't dare presume to tell me to try harder.

 

I have kept out of this thread quite deliberately for several days as I wish to give a measured response, without rising to the flamebait. But are some really preposterous things being said, that I am trying to address as politely as I can.

 

@Ghogiel, it ill behoves you to threaten to report other members for insulting you and allegedly calling you a liar, when that is precisely what you have been doing to me.

Do you really think statistics tell the whole story? That IS unreal. I have friends and relatives who live in Shottingham and whom I visit regularly. The gun crime that makes its way into the stats is the tip of the iceberg. I know what a gunshot sounds like and frankly in some parts of Shottingham, when visiting at night, I'd be a bit surprised NOT to hear a gunshot sound. And the reason it just doesn't get reported is that those illegal sidearms are being wielded by the Mercedes/BMW driving gangsters of whom everyone is scared witless.

[HeyYou]

I have nothing against the poor... someone has to do the menial labor in any society, may as well be the least intelligent and skilled among us.

So either you think "the poor" are all stupid and unskilled, or you just put that sentence at the end of the paragraph for kicks.

 

Are you more willing to offend against compassion or grammar?

 

The poor are either not intelligent or skilled, or have incredibly low willpower and self-esteem. Just calling it how it is. If someone wants something better, try harder, or at least do the best you can, and if one does that and is still struggling, then they have my compassion. Its possible someone can be both intelligent and skilled, but has very low self-esteem and confidence that they just don't even try, as a result, they are poor because of their own will or lack of.

 

What an arrogant and misinformed sweeping generalization. I am currently unemployed, so I am therefore poor. Despite the impression that such as Ghogiel would like to portray to the contrary, I am also pretty damned bright according to both MENSA and the university that awarded me a first class degree. Furthermore I have a lot of office skills and practical experience to back up the academic side of the equation. I am doing my damnedest to get another job, despite the fact that my state of health restricts what I can do as well as the fact that I have to have hours that enable me to carry out my other duties as a carer for my Mum, who has Alzheimers.

 

Now YOU try repeated redundancies for a knock to your self esteem, as I have done. YOU try working with the long term unemployed (as I latterly did) whose jobs have disappeared, who may have been in the same job for twenty odd years and have no clue where to start.

 

Don't dare presume to tell me to try harder.

 

I have kept out of this thread quite deliberately for several days as I wish to give a measured response, without rising to the flamebait. But are some really preposterous things being said, that I am trying to address as politely as I can.

 

@Ghogiel, it ill behoves you to threaten to report other members for insulting you and allegedly calling me a liar, when that is precisely what you have been doing to me.

Do you really think statistics tell the whole story? That IS unreal. I have friends and relatives who live in Shottingham and whom I visit regularly. The gun crime that makes its way into the stats is the tip of the iceberg. I know what a gunshot sounds like and frankly in some parts of Shottingham, when visiting at night, I'd be a bit surprised NOT to hear a gunshot sound. And the reason it just doesn't get reported is that those illegal sidearms are being wielded by the Mercedes/BMW driving gangsters of whom everyone is scared witless.

 

Yep, We seem to have an ever expanding number of stupid, untrained, unmotivated, lazy people here in the states..... after all, the ranks of the poor, and especially those below poverty level have been expanding dramatically these last few years. Oddly enough, it is roughly coincident with the economic troubles everyone seems to be having, even though the government would have us believe that "things are getting better"...... My question to that statement would be: "Better for whom?"

 

In order for the poor to be able to 'better' themselves, there has to BE jobs to be had. That just doesn't seem to be the case here in the states. We lost over 8 MILLION jobs in just under a year, and job growth hasn't even kept up with the expanding workforce in the last several years. The unemployment statistics are hardly believable, as the government has frequently redefined "unemployed", and that doesn't even touch the number of underemployed...

 

Yeah. I guess most americans must just be fat, dumb, and lazy.

[MajKrAzAm]

A good portion of the illegal drug sales are Marijuana, which is the most popular drug in the US. If they legalized/taxed just that then it would remove the criminal unsavory aspect from controlling the supply of that market. Criminal organizations like the Mexican drug cartels would lose out big time.

 

It wouldn’t. Legalizing marijuana would barely harm them. The Mexican cartels are the main traffickers of cocaine in the world today. But even if cocaine were legalized today it would only harm the cartels in the short term. Sure, it would hurt their cash flow but it would be nowhere near analogous to what happened in the US after Prohibition. What people fail to realize is how well organised and established these groups are. It is more appropriate to think of the cartels as a ‘shadow government’ engaged in a criminal insurgency rather than as a simple criminal outfit. Legalization would likely lead to the transformation of the Zetas into a FARC style revolutionary anti-government group. They have the money, manpower, influence and logistics to challenge and even supplant government authority. Except why would they want to? Running the government would be a step down from their current position of making money, and not giving a damn about anything else. Government policy has zero impact on the cartels. The US does not scare them. Nothing short of popular revolt would have any meaningful impact on the Cartels.

[Sepherose]

The poor are either not intelligent or skilled, or have incredibly low willpower and self-esteem. Just calling it how it is. If someone wants something better, try harder, or at least do the best you can, and if one does that and is still struggling, then they have my compassion. Its possible someone can be both intelligent and skilled, but has very low self-esteem and confidence that they just don't even try, as a result, they are poor because of their own will or lack of.

 

Now hold on. I have a torn sciatic nerve. It will never heal. It causes my right leg to randomly stop functioning, and I lack feeling through it to varying degrees. This was not my fault, it was the fault of a drunk man driving a nice BMW. Due to that I can NEVER have a manual labor job. I can NEVER have a job that requires me to stand for extended periods of time, either. Beyond that, I could in theory get a desk job, right? Well no, I can't, and here is why: Due to getting jipped in the eye department genetically, my eyes are extremely sensitive to light. I get migraines a bit easily, and they are debilitating, due to this. ALL desk jobs that I could get would require me to work under bright lights while writing/typing. As for using a computer, I have to turn the brightness down quite a bit, otherwise I will get a severe migraine within 45 minutes.

 

Now, these things have not prevented me from trying to get a job, but most times I am considered a liability due to these issues. The few times I have managed to get jobs, they have fallen apart, not due to my lack of effort, but due to either A: my leg giving out on the job, or B: Me developing a severe migraine on the job and not being able to move. Now, I can't try to wave "I'm disabled, you can't discriminate!" to get a job, since my vision is otherwise good, and I can get rid of the migraines, and my leg typically lets me move around unhindered, so there is that as well.

 

Now, I have to ask, after learning all of that: Is it due to me being stupid, uneducated, or lacking drive to improve my life, that I am in hard financial times right now?

[ginnyfizz]

I feel for you Sepherose, you are in financial straits because of a criminal act and left with a disability as a result. My disability is the result of an autoimmune disease and I too cannot do manual work or anything that would require standing for long periods. I can quite see where you are coming from.

 

It is objectionable to stereotype people in the way that is happening in this thread. The poor are being labelled as lazy, lacking ambition and prone to criminal tendencies. As I said before, statistics and crime figures can be manipulated to prove a political point or provide justification for political acts/boost someones election chances. The poor are a pretty easy target after all.

 

I would really like to see how some of those making the sweeping statements would feel at being made redundant as the economy nosedives.