Was all of this pointless?

[Hateshinai]

I dont know is it just me but the way I see it the Dovahkiin achieved nothing. What I mean is he did save the world from Alduin but even he himself questions whether or not for good as he did not absorb his soul so its possible he will be back. And if thats the case then he did no better than those 3 dragon hunters before him that used the elder scroll to send him to the future, so it was a waste of energy. This reminds me of the Knight of the Nine - the previous Divine Crusader couldnt defeat Umaril in both body and soul so he returned and it was up to the Champion of Cyrodiil to finish the job by becoming the new Divine Crusader who as we all know vanquished him for good. So in that story the Dovahkiin would be the previous Divine Crusader - he simply reset the timer on the bomb instead of defusing it so eventually it will go off anyway. And the fact the Dovahkiin can absorb dragon souls doesnt really change anything you head Esbern he said that the regular dragons can be killed like anything else as the Blades were once dragon hunters too. It would only make a real difference if he had absorbed Alduins soul and perhaps as a result become the harbringer of the end of the world him/herself - now that would be one hell of a plot twist eh?

 

Another thing is the civil war - no matter which side you choose someone is going to be unhappy either way. Skyrim will be under the boot of a racist or religious fanatics i.e. all non-norn will be treated like dirt or Talos worship will be banned and since Tiber Septim a.k.a. Talos is considered a great hero by the Nords they and many other will be very displeased about it. So its obvious that whichever side won eventually there will be a new civil war in other words either a next Ulfric will appear or the non-nords will revolt agianst such tyranny. I dont know about you people but wouldnt it be better if there was a 3rd option only a much more difficult one of course - like becoming High King yourself?

I know thats not possible but there could be for example a certain individual whom is a descendant of a previous High King who wants you to help him/her gain the throne. And that person would desire the freedom of Talos worship but would also frown on racism in Skyrim but at same time would not have support of the Empire nor Stormcloaks so the task would be more difficult however everyone in Skyrim would be happy once that person becomes High King. Only the empire would be unhappy as it would lose another province however the empire is crumbling anyway so it would only be speeding up the inevitable.

[McclaudEagle]

I agree with the first point, but not the second. I think the best thing that should have been done for those who support the empire is to be able to destroy the Thalmor, thus allowing Talos worship again and making many Nords happy with the Empire again.

[Helix234]

I agree with the first point, but not the second. I think the best thing that should have been done for those who support the empire is to be able to destroy the Thalmor, thus allowing Talos worship again and making many Nords happy with the Empire again.

 

Quote me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Thalmor are very powerful, hence why the Empire can't really strike against them, hence why the White Gold Concordat was written to be in agreement with the Thalmor, lest they strike again. At least that's what I remember hearing. Of course the Empire would love to worship Talos, but they can't, otherwise they'll violate the Concordat, and will force the Thalmor's hand upon them.

[Marcvss]

I agree with both points up to the point were it is clear we are dealing with unfinished storylines...

 

Both endings in my opinion suggest either a sequel (or a ES6 for that matter) or massive dlc's with definite endings.

The whole Alduin quest-line ended way to abruptly and didn't have a "real" ending in my opinion. I really had the feeling when I finished my first playthrough that I still had a long way ahead of me.

Same goes for the civil war quest line. Shure the Empire/Stormcloaks get their arses kicked but still they hold a number of holds within Skyrim. So theres basicly a big opening for a new conflict no? Specially taken the Thalmor into consideration and the Psijic order telling Dovahkiin he was bound for something greater.

 

All in all, I feel like theres more to come, way more... (just hope I'm not mistaken:p)

[pannonian]

I agree with both points up to the point were it is clear we are dealing with unfinished storylines...

 

Both endings in my opinion suggest either a sequel (or a ES6 for that matter) or massive dlc's with definite endings.

 

Actually it's just Bethesda somehow lacking a good storywriter , or it seems like they made the game first and tried to attach a storyline later. Or they had a storyline and then due to the strict release date, they had to throw something together quick. It just reminds me, when I write an essay and I start out good, but later on I am out of time and just quickly try to find an ending, because it's due next week. :thumbsup:

[xlr8films]

There is something definitely up with the writing. And I'll give a prime example.

 

The Redguard tavern chick that is on the run from the Aliikr. To find the main guy, you can go to the Whiterun dungeon and question a prisoner there. You better carry 100 gold with you because NO MATTER WHAT you have to pay it.

 

What if I just beat the living sh1t out of this guy? What if I'm already a Thane by the time I get around to him? I should get "(Thane of Whiterun) I got a better idea. I'm going to order the guards to look away. You and I are about to have a talk." But the "dialogue" doesn't allow for that. And that isn't the only example in a TON of misc quests.

 

It really does make me think one guy in a closet did all the writing for Beth while the rest of them played golf or something.

[Marcvss]

 

Actually it's just Bethesda somehow lacking a good storywriter

On that I think we can all definently agree.:thumbsup:

 

But... You cant tell me for the love of it, that Beth's testing crew, tested the game and came to the conclusion that it was one epic game with one epic ending. No theres definently more to it.

 

Skyrim to me feels like reading a descent enough book but after chapter whatever theres only blanc pages left.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Marcvss

[saintjimmyz]

OP:

 

Resetting the 'death' timer is never pointless. You are saving the world. The world will end eventually, even if it is billions of years in the future when the earth (or 'nirn') crashes into the sun. You can never pernamentally save the world. Does that make preventing the apocalypse pointless? Of course it doesnt.

 

With regards to the second point: Why is it that so many people treat the 'racism' of the stormcloaks as a cardinal sin? The Thalmor and the Empire working with them have on a regular basis imprisoned, tortured and executed people, just because they are suspected Talos worshippers. Yet people overlook this and say 'OMFG TEH STOARMCLOKS SED TEH N WORD!!!11!!' Racism is an incredibly minor flaw in the circumstances. In modern western society, where people are not dragged from their homes and executed on a regular basis, people start to focus on such petty wrongs such as racism and sexism. Skyrim is not like that. People fight to save their own lives, to save the lives of those they love. They do not fight to stop the marginalisation of the dunmer community in Windhelm, its a minor issue.

 

A third option in the civil war should be focused against the Thalmor, it should not be this politically correct saint who turns the world into a happy place where little children can freely skip through meadows filled with flowers.

[abaris]

 

Actually it's just Bethesda somehow lacking a good storywriter , or it seems like they made the game first and tried to attach a storyline later.

 

 

No, the story is rather good. They just fail to make something of it. It's the open ended bug. Therefore you cannot achieve anything because they expect you to venture on, even though there's nothing left to do. So nothing you do is of any consequence. It has been with every Elder Scroll game and it will be with future Elder Scroll games.

 

That's, as I have said numerous times, why I like the open world concept, but loathe the open ending idea.

[Hateshinai]

OP:

 

Resetting the 'death' timer is never pointless. You are saving the world. The world will end eventually, even if it is billions of years in the future when the earth (or 'nirn') crashes into the sun. You can never pernamentally save the world. Does that make preventing the apocalypse pointless? Of course it doesnt.

 

With regards to the second point: Why is it that so many people treat the 'racism' of the stormcloaks as a cardinal sin? The Thalmor and the Empire working with them have on a regular basis imprisoned, tortured and executed people, just because they are suspected Talos worshippers. Yet people overlook this and say 'OMFG TEH STOARMCLOKS SED TEH N WORD!!!11!!' Racism is an incredibly minor flaw in the circumstances. In modern western society, where people are not dragged from their homes and executed on a regular basis, people start to focus on such petty wrongs such as racism and sexism. Skyrim is not like that. People fight to save their own lives, to save the lives of those they love. They do not fight to stop the marginalisation of the dunmer community in Windhelm, its a minor issue.

 

A third option in the civil war should be focused against the Thalmor, it should not be this politically correct saint who turns the world into a happy place where little children can freely skip through meadows filled with flowers.

Of course it is there is an old saying - "you cannot delay war you can only wait until your enemy grows stronger". So if Alduin will return then the main question is when? What if he will return in say 100 years thats not much of a delay now is it? And when he does return he will be smarter next time and will be much harder to beat without the Dovahkiin. If he cannot be destroyed for good then its a waste of time as you can keep trying and trying until eventually he will win.

 

And as for your fight the Thalmor thing you forgot that they reside in the Summerset Isles not Skyrim so you would have to launch a campaign there. However how do you expect Skyrim to ever fight them if Skyrim alone has conflicts on its own teritory? Only if all the people are united will they be able to defeat them. You say racism is nothing bad ok then tell me if you were a Dunmer whos family has lived in Skyrim for generations and you never supported the Thalmor in the first place and now the natives want to kick you out nor would they care if you or your family are killed you think that would be right? More over the Thalmor obviously are powerful so after being weakened by the civil war you would need allies and who is gonna support you? Hammerfell perhaps would as the Redguards already defeated the Thalmor on their teritory albeit a great cost. But if their people living in Skyrim would be mistreated then the Redguards would say "To hell with you, you dont care about our people so we dont care about you!"

If Skyrim were ruled by a righteous ruler only then can you count on support from the other provinces that oppose the Thalmor - enemy of your enemy is your friend.