Was all of this pointless?

[marharth]

Also with the KotN dlc it specifically states that u needed the blessing of Talos to finally defeat Umarill the Unfeathered. That same missing blessing was the reason Pelinal Whitestrake was unable to fully defeat Umaril the first time around since without it he could not follow him to the astral plane to kill his soul there.

 

Eh, i never played Knights of the Nine. That whole Talos thing reaks of a writer who didn't read the TES lore, however, since Pelinal was a Shezzarine, and thus at least as divine as the Dragonborn, probably moreso since he was something of a direct avatar and not some panzy representitive.

 

And for the Oblivon crisis thing, again, it was the link to Akatosh, not the link to Talos, which allowed Martin to do what he did. Talos was Dragonborn, thus had the divine blood of Akatosh. Yes, Martin's line to Talos was a source of power, but that source was Akatosh, so he's really the one who did the work, not Talos. It's also the fact that he shares the blood of Akatosh that would have allowed you to use his blood to open the gate to Cameron's Paradise. Ironicly, you should have been able to use Martin's as well, since he shared the divine blood... Would have save you a trip to some dank dungeon.

 

Still, we do in fact know Talos is a god because of his avatar in Morrowind.

He said blood of a divine, not just blood of a dragonborn. There is a huge difference there.

 

As you said, if he just needed dragonborn blood martin could of used his own blood to open the gate.

[Lachdonin]

Ah yes, but Dragonborn blood IS divine blood.

[marharth]

Ah yes, but Dragonborn blood IS divine blood.

Well not really. Dragonborn blood means you have the soul of a dragon, which comes from Akatosh. That does not make you a divine, that makes you a dragon. Dragons are not divines.

[KratosAurion777]

I wonder which issue will be true in TES 6 .

 

- The stormcloak won Then Fighted the Thalmor ( with the imperial )

- The imperial Won Then Fighted The thalmor ( With The Help Of the Jarls Of Skyrim ) .

- IT was a Tie Situation and they Finally Agreed To Fight the Thalmor Together .

-The Thalmor Win one of the 3 previous issue And Gain control of Almost all Tamriel .

 

 

I don't know what The redguard//hamerfell will do . I bet THey will fight against the Thalmor .

Breton Will do nothing like always .

[KratosAurion777]

Ah yes, but Dragonborn blood IS divine blood.

 

 

Wrong .

 

Just Tiber Septim became a divine ( Talos ) , He was Dragonborn but the Other dragonborn don't become Divine .

This is why the Thalmor is Wrong , we have the proof that tiber septim is a divine by opening an oblivion plane with his blood ! ( The paradise of Mankar Camoran . )

Edited December 28, 2011 by KratosAurion777

[Khorak]

The tready that ended the 100 years war between England and France involved concesions on both sides.

 

And is completely irrelevant to this discussion. There is literally absolutely no indication whatsoever that the Aldmeri Dominion made concessions to the Empire. Provide some evidence of it from the game. There isn't any. You can't just make something like that up and start talking to people like it's true. It's not even slightly supportable with anything from the game. Let me make it clear, there is absolutely zero indication AT ALL that the Thalmor made any concessions.

 

Do we have the actual White-Gold concordant to read? No. As such, we do not know the specific terms of the treaty. Claiming that the Empire was the only one give something up is argueing from the possition that 'Absence of evidence is evidence of absence'. Thats a logical fallacy.

 

*LOL* That is utterly pitiful. Just...pitiful. You're an idiot. Don't try to argue logical fallacies when you have no idea what you're doing with them. What you are doing is claiming that because evidence cannot be explicitly provided that the Thalmor made no concessions, your position that they made concessions must be true. Even reading that makes you look dumb. It gets more dumb by taking your argument and placing it in other terms to display how dumb it is.

 

Example: I say unicorns exist. You cannot explicitly disprove this. Therefore it is true.

Example: I say Mars is made out of cheese. You cannot bring me a piece of Mars to disprove this. Therefore it is true.

Example: You say your blood is made out of milk. Since I'm not going to be coming over there to beat the blood out of you, therefore this is true.

 

You are claiming that because I cannot pull out the White-Gold Concordat itself to disprove you, it must contain things you claim for which there is no evidence or indication. THAT is a logical fallacy. It is no different than the absurd examples above.

 

You cannot bring me a sample of the sun, so clearly it would be a logical fallacy for you to argue that I cannot claim it is full of chocolate and Belgians on the basis of there being absolutely zero indication or evidence that it has any chocolate or Belgians in it. Another example of what you're trying to pull against me here. It is insulting that I even have to field such....lunacy.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Khorak

[LobselVith66]

 

Ironicly, you should have been able to use Martin's as well, since he shared the divine blood... Would have save you a trip to some dank dungeon.

 

Martin isn't descended from Tiber Septim. In fact, most of the Septim rulers were descended from Tiber Septim's brother, Agnorith. Tiber Septim's bloodline died with Pelagius I, his immediate heir, who died childless. Every ruler from Kintyra merely took the name of Septim, to legitimize their claim to Tiber Septim's legacy. They are not his descendants, and therefore do not possess the blood of Tiber Septim. Also, Emperor Uriel IV wasn't even descended from Agnorith, since his mother was a Septim's queen, and his father was a commoner.

[Lachdonin]

Ah yes, but Dragonborn blood IS divine blood.

 

 

Wrong .

 

Just Tiber Septim became a divine ( Talos ) , He was Dragonborn but the Other dragonborn don't become Divine .

This is why the Thalmor is Wrong , we have the proof that tiber septim is a divine by opening an oblivion plane with his blood ! ( The paradise of Mankar Camoran . )

 

Not wrong. The Dragonborns divinity is shown in the conclusion of quesline in the College of Winterhold, where the mage (whose name i can';t remember because Paarthunax and Ulfric are the only remotely memorable characters in this game) is absorbed by the Dragonborn when trying to recreate the dissapearance of the Dwarves. I won't go into the length of TES metaphysics regarding the subject, but the ability to absord souls is a mark of divinity.

 

The difference, of course, is that the Dragonborn's divinity is borrowed from Akatosh. Talos's divinity became his own.

 

Martin isn't descended from Tiber Septim. In fact, most of the Septim rulers were descended from Tiber Septim's brother, Agnorith. Tiber Septim's bloodline died with Pelagius I, his immediate heir, who died childless. Every ruler from Kintyra merely took the name of Septim, to legitimize their claim to Tiber Septim's legacy. They are not his descendants, and therefore do not possess the blood of Tiber Septim. Also, Emperor Uriel IV wasn't even descended from Agnorith, since his mother was a Septim's queen, and his father was a commoner.

 

I've double checked your genology on this, and agree 100%. Still, if he WAS a direct line, his blood should still have worked. Assuming, of course, that the Dragonblood is hereditery and not just a one off...

 

 

And Khorak, you clearly don't understand context, cultural bias, or historic comparison, and have a terrible skewed perspective on arguementitive structure and even the basic point i am trying to make.

 

We do NOT have the White Gold Concordant. Thus, we do not KNOW if the Thalmor made any concessions. As such, we cannot say that what the Empire gave up was the absolute terms of the treaty. THAT is what i am saying. I am not saying anything about the Thalmor making sacrifices, only stating that we have incomplete information and are thus unable to make conclusive judgements about the treaty.

 

On the other hand, you are argueing that the Thalmor made no concessions based on absolutely no evidence, and that the Empire gave up its freedom willingly based on incomplete evidence. The difference is i refuse to make final judgement without proper information, you seem to be ready to pass the death sentance with a few scraps on out-of-context information.

[djinx187]

psst for a treaty to work both sides have to give up something. The Thalmor giving up attacking the empire is a part(if not the whole part) of their concession. From there common sense would also include their main army if it wasn't completely destroyed to move out the Empire's territory while agreeing to let some of the Thalmor stay and do their thing. (but it's not written and we don't have it so we can't check bleh bleh bleh). Use common sense. Now if the Thalmor didn't make any concessions the Empire would still be at war with all of the other bonus's Mede gave to them. Not the case though. So again Yes the Thalmor made at least one concession(being able to common sense it to 2)

 

I'm not gonna touch the whole talos/dragonborn god metaphysics tes lore thing that would take forever to say why Talos is a Divine and why dragonborn's are not and why its not a good idea to smack a warped soul stone with a nifty magic dagger.

[Pineapplerum]

OP:

 

Resetting the 'death' timer is never pointless. You are saving the world. The world will end eventually, even if it is billions of years in the future when the earth (or 'nirn') crashes into the sun. You can never pernamentally save the world. Does that make preventing the apocalypse pointless? Of course it doesnt.

 

With regards to the second point: Why is it that so many people treat the 'racism' of the stormcloaks as a cardinal sin? The Thalmor and the Empire working with them have on a regular basis imprisoned, tortured and executed people, just because they are suspected Talos worshippers. Yet people overlook this and say 'OMFG TEH STOARMCLOKS SED TEH N WORD!!!11!!' Racism is an incredibly minor flaw in the circumstances. In modern western society, where people are not dragged from their homes and executed on a regular basis, people start to focus on such petty wrongs such as racism and sexism. Skyrim is not like that. People fight to save their own lives, to save the lives of those they love. They do not fight to stop the marginalisation of the dunmer community in Windhelm, its a minor issue.

 

A third option in the civil war should be focused against the Thalmor, it should not be this politically correct saint who turns the world into a happy place where little children can freely skip through meadows filled with flowers.

 

That first paragraph reminds me of what Paarthurnax said... When he spoke about me saving the end of the world, I was just preventing a new one from being born....he's right, other worlds need to be born..we can't have this one be immortal.

So with that wisdom....meditate Feim, Dagonborn.....everything mortal fades away in time but the spirit remains.

Lol :biggrin: