normal map problems

[Ghogiel]

Make sure to reset xforms before export, and in nifskope spells>batch>update tangent space is bout all I can think of off hand.

[Killjaeden]

i tried both. I also exported it with "update tangent space" off just to see if it messes things up. But that's not the case, it seemed to not show the normal ingame at all.

I'll try to break up the uvw's tomorrow and see if they react differently

This thing is quite annoying, already spent 2 freaking days on this crap >.<

Edited December 21, 2011 by Killjaeden

[Ghogiel]

Well I don't know what you are doing at this point, if you send me he max scene and the normal map, I'll tell you what is going on.

[Killjaeden]

Here it is (it's a max 2010 file)

Thanks

Edited December 21, 2011 by Killjaeden

[Ghogiel]

I think the problem started when you baked it. What appears to be happening is that you have split the edge right at the font of the eye protect or piece at some point, which modified the normals there, thus causing a normal map bake/tangent mismatch which results in a shading error. So at some point you kinda messed it up. I did a quick bake on a makeshift high poly to show you it will in fact work if you bake it right.

 

 

 

also note that you are using hard edges and then not splitting the UV seams where the edge is hard, which will result in a ray miss when you bake. I would actually just smooth those edges myself and control the edge hardness in a lot of places with the normal map.

[Killjaeden]

also note that you are using hard edges and then not splitting the UV seams where the edge is hard, which will result in a ray miss when you bake. I would actually just smooth those edges myself and control the edge hardness in a lot of places with the normal map.

Oh, thanks, that's new to me. I still have all the meshes, so i could correct that at least

 

So basically if i want one part to look smooth via normal i better not split it into multiple parts i guess? But what of the rivets? They are added in photoshop and are all the same, yet they are "cross-eyed" ingame

[Ghogiel]

Well I just used your UV layout and baked to that. the ray miss is an issue with UV splits and hard edges, basically you HAVE to split the UV if you use a hard edge or you'll get a a funny effect in normal map, there will be a seam there. Have a look at what my output map looked like around where you had hard edges and where I probably smoothed them.

 

You shouldn't have split right down the middle of the brow/eye protector UV imo. it is the MOST important focal piece of the mesh, and really why you did that is a bit of a mystery.

 

What I did I just smoothed it all to 60 degree and then made the main dome part that has those bands riveted to it it's own smoothing group ( it was split to their own UV islands which is how I would have UV that part as well)

[Killjaeden]

I baked the map in an "exploded" version of the mesh (someone used that in a tutorial), with the rims, facepiece, eyebrow and the 4 mainpanels as seperate pieces.

I'm still a beginner in normal map baking and texturing (obiously :D), i used tileable textures before a lot for another game (x3) so i guess that's where my habbit to seperate everything to it's own smoothing group comes from :ermm:

The "eyebrow" was split because i thought it wouldn't matter, i wanted to make the main part of the diff texture via mudbox and there it doesn't matter. Bad decision apparently.

 

So you think the rivets would shine all in the same direction if i would change the UVW-layout appropriately? Because is still seems like a mystery to me, even if i screwed the rest of the normal bake and the smoothing groups, the rivets should look ok. I have the feeling that they just peer to taunt me

Edited December 21, 2011 by Killjaeden

[Ghogiel]

I baked the map in an "exploded" version of the mesh (someone used that in a tutorial), with the rims, facepiece, eyebrow and the 4 mainpanels as seperate pieces.

I'm still a beginner in normal map baking and texturing (obiously :D), i used tileable textures before a lot for another game (x3) so i guess that's where my habbit to seperate everything to it's own smoothing group comes from :ermm:

The "eyebrow" was split because i thought it wouldn't matter, i wanted to make the main part of the diff texture via mudbox and there it doesn't matter. Bad decision apparently.

 

So you think the rivets would shine all in the same direction if i would change the UVW-layout appropriately? Because is still seems like a mystery to me, even if i screwed the rest of the normal bake and the smoothing groups, the rivets should look ok. I have the feeling that they just peer to taunt me

 

It's not all a UV problem, as you can see I used your UV and mesh and the normal I baked works fine, I think what you did was explode, bake, then after you baked, did you welded some verts back together. That would cause the normals to change from when you baked it, and would show up as shading errors. It's something like that that is going on, the error is just your normals are a bit weird/does match the normals of the mesh when you baked.

[Killjaeden]

did you welded some verts back together

ahh... yes i did that. :sweat:

 

Oh well, guess it's back to square 1 then, texturewise :sleep: Anyway, thank you so much for your help