Why Bethesda, Why

[ginnyfizz]

Bugs are what Bethesda do best, thankfully they also let us mod their stuff. I honestly wouldn't bother with their games on consoles, it's the modding community that make their games worthwhile.

 

To all the cry babies, including the poster, I submit this to you:

 

http://bit.ly/hGmWOB

 

Deal with it! They will get all the bugs fixed! It is an enormous game, and these things are to be expected, for cryin' out loud!

 

I do declare we have a Dovahkid award for you. And for Matth85.

 

HadToRegister, abaris and jim_uk are right on the money here. Like them, I have been playing Bugthesda (they did not get that nickname without good reason) games for years. Just because we manage to get some fun out of them in spite of the bugs does not mean that we are not entitled to complain when what we get for our money is a rotten bugfest. A game is indeed a product like any other and should be fit for the purpose of playing. Skyrim, for me, was bad in regard to bugs even by Bugthesda standards.

 

And if it hadn't been for the likes of us complaining in our thousands, do you seriously think that Bethesda would have incorporated, for example, the LAA fix? Like hell they would have. Even on the fanboi (sorry, official) forums one poll suggested that by far the majority of PC players were on 64 bit systems and with more than 2Gb RAM, so not incorporating LAA capability from the first, perhaps even an optional 64 bit exe (other games do)was a bit of a glaring blooper.

 

I am another one who finds it alarming how people are prepared to defend game companies no matter what, as HadToRegister points out, it is the worshipping fanbois that allow the likes of EA to treat customers with contempt. I can remember people stoutly defending the turkey that was Dragon Age II, for example...And now we have Bethesda and the CK being tied to Steam and the Steam Workshop thing. Oh dear, I see a pattern.

[JimboUK]

Its not as if they don't know they've got a reputation for shoddy software, anyone remember his gem from Todd the Liar? http://kotaku.com/5834914/the-skyrim-team-has-a-better-plan-for-squashing-bugs-this-time

 

Rather than actually dealing with the problem they sent out Mr Howard to do what he does best, tell a pack of lies.

[Matth85]

I do declare we have a Dovahkid award for you. And for Matth85.

Ironic, real ironic.

 

HadToRegister, abaris and jim_uk are right on the money here. Like them, I have been playing Bugthesda (they did not get that nickname without good reason) games for years. Just because we manage to get some fun out of them in spite of the bugs does not mean that we are not entitled to complain when what we get for our money is a rotten bugfest.

If you play over 100 houres, it is more than "some fun". And if you keep buying the games when you know that they are bugfests, I think you need to rethink a little. Why would I buy something "rotten" constantly, and complain about it?

 

A game is indeed a product like any other and should be fit for the purpose of playing. Skyrim, for me, was bad in regard to bugs even by Bugthesda standards.

THat I do agree on, however: Bethesda spends 5 years and multi millions of dollars to make a game -- and all you can do is sit on your ass complaining year after year? I am not sure you know this, but the game industry got money problems. Only a few companies got the money to polish their games. Yes, I look at Blizzard.

 

And if it hadn't been for the likes of us complaining in our thousands, do you seriously think that Bethesda would have incorporated, for example, the LAA fix? Like hell they would have. Even on the fanboi (sorry, official) forums one poll suggested that by far the majority of PC players were on 64 bit systems and with more than 2Gb RAM, so not incorporating LAA capability from the first, perhaps even an optional 64 bit exe (other games do)was a bit of a glaring blooper.

You mean complaining as in "Bugthesda is terrible because of bugs they suck!"? No, they don't listen to that.

Or do you mean "A good fix for X bug would be Y solution."?

 

One is critisism on a good level, one is crying.

 

am another one who finds it alarming how people are prepared to defend game companies no matter what, as HadToRegister points out, it is the worshipping fanbois that allow the likes of EA to treat customers with contempt. I can remember people stoutly defending the turkey that was Dragon Age II, for example...And now we have Bethesda and the CK being tied to Steam and the Steam Workshop thing. Oh dear, I see a pattern.

So you will rise up and call anybody a fanboy if they defends a game? What logic is this?

If you only knew the hardship of making a game, you'd perhaps understand why we defend it. I don't care if SKyrim is a bugfest, I will defend it either way. Not because the game was amazing, because it wasn't, but because it's a TES game: It gives me 100+ houres of fun, I can mod it and I know the hardship it is to make a game with the economy of the world.

 

If you want to declare peole "Dovhakids", you might want to ease up on the "fanboi!!" talk, as you are quite the hypocrit.

[ginnyfizz]

The case is proved, since you are actually resorting to hurling yet more insults. As a matter of fact, I posted on the official forums about suggested fixes such as the 64 bit exe and the LAA aware fix and also mentioned them in PM's and support reports. Well, we got one of them. Maybe we will get the other since that poll suggests that 64 bit Win7 is quite the norm for PC players.

 

Also, if you are going to be rude, at least spell it right. The correct spelling is hypocrite. And I'm not one. I am a straight talking no bull sort of person who calls it like she sees it, all my education and work based training has taught me to be that way. I have frequently been asked to beta test mods because of my ability to critique properly. And there is a world of difference between being a hypocrite and being able to look at something that has some enjoyable elements and spot the flaws in it, and refuse to put up with them. The worst thing about Skyrim is that they won't give us the CK from release, so that I can fix some of the crap myself, or in conjunction with proper modders.

 

I find it interesting that you equate being patient and hoping against your better judgment that Bugthesda might have learned from previous disasters, might have grown their knowledge, with hypocrisy. It boils down to this, that other posters have said, you'd raise every level of hell if Ford or GM supplied a car with bits missing/not firing right. I had a very pretty Vauxhall Corsa TD some years ago, went like a bat out of hell and was great fun, but due to an inherent wiring fault on the manufacturer's end she caught fire as I was driving along. Did I say "Oh well, she's been fun, I'll happily pay what it costs to fix her?" Did I HELL. Hell is what Vauxhall GM got from me. Funnily enough, they caved in after the first phone call...seemed to agree that almost roasting your customers was bad PR.

 

Sometimes in life, you actually do have to complain. Hypocrisy is saying something is fine when it manifestly is not.

[abaris]

 

Hypocrisy is saying something is fine when it manifestly is not.

 

 

That is called PR. And there are high paid departments doing exactly that.

 

But to your original argument, next to noone actually called Skyrim a bad game. Most people just don't close their eyes when they run into bugs or half arsed attempts at roleplaying opportunities. Even more so, since the game shows what could have been and what has been left unfinished in order to meet a deadline and/or financial constraints.

 

The companion system comes to mind and most of all marriage. Both great additions if they were thought through and fleshed out, but lame in their current state. Also the unrewarding questlines which make me seek my fun moments in aimless exploring rather than actually persuing any quests besides the rather well done thieves guild.

 

People who think to put up or shut up is the way to go should actually think about a career in PR. They're obviously made to make the lives of companies easier by blaming the customers for their so called "wrongful sense of entitlement".

[ginnyfizz]

 

Hypocrisy is saying something is fine when it manifestly is not.

 

 

That is called PR. And there are high paid departments doing exactly that.

 

But to your original argument, next to noone actually called Skyrim a bad game. Most people just don't close their eyes when they run into bugs or half arsed attempts at roleplaying opportunities. Even more so, since the game shows what could have been and what has been left unfinished in order to meet a deadline and/or financial constraints.

 

The companion system comes to mind and most of all marriage. Both great additions if they were thought through and fleshed out, but lame in their current state. Also the unrewarding questlines which make me seek my fun moments in aimless exploring rather than actually persuing any quests besides the rather well done thieves guild.

 

People who think to put up or shut up is the way to go should actually think about a career in PR. They're obviously made to make the lives of companies easier by blaming the customers for their so called "wrongful sense of entitlement".

 

Absolutely true.

 

Apart from...I trust you didn't mean me by "But to your original argument, next to noone actually called Skyrim a bad game"? I never said anyone did.

[abaris]

 

Apart from...I trust you didn't mean me by "But to your original argument, next to noone actually called Skyrim a bad game"? I never said anyone did.

 

No, I meant, some folks tend to jump at anyone voicing the least bit of criticism.

[ginnyfizz]

Ah good, that's what I thought you meant.

 

The attitude you describe has never been more pronounced than for Skyrim, and I thought New Vegas was bad for it.

[abaris]

 

The attitude you describe has never been more pronounced than for Skyrim, and I thought New Vegas was bad for it.

 

Didn't follow the debate about New Vegas, since originally not interested in that kind of setting, I came rather late to the game. But where it matters to me, New Vegas did several things better than Skyrim. Mainly the immersion and roleplaying part.

[Matth85]

The case is proved, since you are actually resorting to hurling yet more insults

And you drop the fact you hurl out the first?

 

Also, if you are going to be rude, at least spell it right

Rude? I am sorry, did I hurt your feelings?

I believe a member of this forum got the right quote for this. Goes along: "When out of argument, attack the grammar". It holds true, no? You understood the meaning of the word, which is enough.

 

And I'm not one. I am a straight talking no bull sort of person who calls it like she sees it, all my education and work based training has taught me to be that way. I have frequently been asked to beta test mods because of my ability to critique properly. And there is a world of difference between being a hypocrite and being able to look at something that has some enjoyable elements and spot the flaws in it, and refuse to put up with them

What you do in your sparetime is irrelevant to the point. You scream out "Dovahkid" as an insult, and yet the sentence itself is the exact same you say. Wether you are good to critique or not is irrelevant to that.

 

The worst thing about Skyrim is that they won't give us the CK from release, so that I can fix some of the crap myself, or in conjunction with proper modders.

Which is understandable on both parts. Ever crossed your mind it is people working to make a game? Did you know how hard they worked the last month? Did you know this was right before Thanksgivig and Christmas? Heck, we are lucky we get a toolkit at all.

I find it interesting that you equate being patient and hoping against your better judgment that Bugthesda might have learned from previous disasters, might have grown their knowledge, with hypocrisy. It boils down to this, that other posters have said, you'd raise every level of hell if Ford or GM supplied a car with bits missing/not firing right

Unless I am mistaken, the car marked is not about to go down the drain. In case you didn't know: The game industry are. If you get a half-done product it is because of money and time constrain. Having some respect for Bethesda is allowed you know? Besides, nothing forces you to buy the games every time they come out. If you have known it has been bad since Arena, why the heck do you play Skyrim today?

It's like me buying a new watch every 5 year, from the same guy, and each time they stop working after a week. Who in their right mind would do that?

Not to mention most of the people manage 100+ houres into Skyrim. Now you automatically lose the right to complain. If you have enjoyed 100 houres, you have gotten more worth of your money than the average game today gives you.

 

My points are simple:

Don't expect people to be "nice" to you when you insulted them a second ago. Wether they feel insulted or not is irrelevant.

Have some respect for the game indsutry and Bethesda. Don't like the bugs in the games? Stop buying the games.

Got over 100 hours into the game, and you enjoyed it? You really got no right to complain. I am not saying you can't bring up problems, but there is no right insulting Bethesda and whining over it.

 

If you want to voice arguments, that's fine - everybody does it. If you now start insulting a little here and there, naming people you know nothing about fanboys and perhaps add in a few nicknames for Bethesda, well you lose all respect and rights. I doubt you even know how the Game Industry works, as far as your attitude goes. Respect and critisism brings changes, disrespect and whining does not. Wheter you are good giving critique is irrelevant if you are as disrespectfull of everybody you don't agree with, as you show here. I can grab examples:

 

I do declare we have a Dovahkid award for you. And for Matth85.

- Totally nice. Joke or not, it's an insult.

 

The case is proved, since you are actually resorting to hurling yet more insults

- Ironic if we look up.

Bugthesda

- I am sure Bethesda love making game when their customers calls them nicnames. Besides, didn't nicknaming stop at what, 3rd grade?

 

Now you can choose to see this as rude or not. I care not what you think about it. I talk direct, and I don't spam smileys to sugarcoat it.

I also suggest you get better things to do than go on the grammar. It doesn't prove your own points in any way by doing it. If anything, it proves mine.