[WIP] Weapon Addition and Replacement Suite (WARS)

[celdorash]

Antistar I have one last question for either you or anyone else in here with some basic modding skills who might be willing if they were able to get the right permissions. I am really excited for Fallout Cascadia, Fallout 4 New Vegas, and The Capital Wasteland Project. I would really like it if these amazing mods could have similar changes to WARS in terms of the enemy health scaling. I am not really into the bullet sponge aspect of the Fallout RPGS after having experienced it the other way. I am not really thinking a full time consuming overhaul like the WARS one. But simply the health scaling limitations, damage normalization across calibers (nothing as crazy as WARS just a quick runthrough), and the mods and perks not giving absurd damage increases. Thinking of it though I am pretty sure on of those projects is working a framework for the old skill and perk systems that they are all likely to use so thinking more on this may be asking way too much considering you would have to chance how the gun skills and such affect damage as well as run through a lot more perks to keep things under control. Shoot I really want that action shooter experience for those mods. Though I do think the older games weren't as absurd with the scaling were they? Essentially I want to have all these amazing story experiences to play through but want a more consistent less bullet spongey experience across all of them. I think this would be the ultimate Fallout 4 content setup. All these amazing experiences with WARS for the main game and a similar shooting challenge across the amazing stories we know and love and the new one from Cascadia we are likely to love a ton as well.

Edited January 1, 2018 by celdorash

[celdorash]

I just thought about why I really like resource based difficulty in regards to health like you see in Horizon. It's because I don't like the idea of just getting one shot and not being able to do anything about it. I have just realized how great a fix your ammo changes are as now instead of just being rained on with a hail of bullets you will now be able to react tactically by waiting out their ammo at the cost of not being able to pick it up yourself. I also think the npc accuracy is a little overtuned at long distances but it isn't too bad. Perhaps there is a way to make npc reloads take longer as I believe you said you are doing that with most of the Player Character guns. It would be nice to have gaps during enemy reload times to react and fire back. Obviously if there a ton of enemies their reloads will be staggered so that you may have to re position in such a manner so that you have a clear shot on one enemy that you will able to hit during their reload. I think I can see a ton of potential in your more realistic health system assuming that there are actual tactical gaps and ways to react. With just simple damage changes as I have seen with some other mods it just led to a lot of me dying and not being able to get of situations. Perhaps the combination of reload times and limited ammo will be enough to make it work better. Really really sorry for leaving tons of rants on here it's not that I don't have faith in your ability it is just that I really want a great experience as I haven't been this excited for a mod in the history of ever and want it to be an amazing experience. For example I really like the ru556 and ak5c weapon mods and want to use your integration instructions you are planning on making to add them into the WARS experience assuming you don't have any weapons that are too similar. But having those weapons with see-through-scopes and having yours not have it would be really odd. (hence why I asked if you would allow someone to add a see-through-scopes patch for your weapons. Thanks btw :laugh:) Also I just like seeing my weapon while I am firing it. I find that when your have the blackout scope system it becomes difficult to distinguish weapons from each other as you have no frame of reference other than perhaps sound effects. OOOH Also I remember you saying you weren't going to have custom sound effects for a lot of your guns. Is it still the plan to have the standard gun sound effects applied to each and us having to simply download our favorite gun sound overhauls? Vanilla silenced gun sounds are absolute dogshit lol.

[celdorash]

Really sorry for the last three novels I left on here. Just really pumped for your work. What I have seen so far is amazing. Also holy s#*! Hitmans animations are money!!!

[ZOMKILL]

How is your mod presented for this year? is on a good path? :D :dance: :-)

[antistar]

Ah I see so the there will still be limited resources at your disposal as far as ammunition goes simply based on carry weight limitations. So in that sense you will have more ammo overall should you stock up but will have to choose how much of each ammo type for your guns you would like to take with you on a run. Assuming I do not use fast travel as I usually do not. I can see ammo collecting runs being a thing. I really think this could be a lot of fun. I can see some lower end guns being used as a secondary still during later game content due to their weight efficiency. This could turn out great for the relevancy of some lighter caliber weapons. This is pretty awesome for someone like me who loves a good handgun. Seems you have thought this out better than I have Antistar. Or perhaps these are just the natural effects of a more natural and true to life system. I am excited to be carrying my big ole AMR with me but having to decide if my target is worth the use of its limited ammo I have for it on me. Super cool dynamics I didn't think about. One question I have is if you have any plans to remove certain tedious things from the survival experience. For example I like the disease system but I really hate diseases and sicknesses that make you have to drink sleep or eat more. I don't understand why you would take something you have to do constantly and have a disease that makes it even more tedious to handle. Also the adrenaline thing is ridiculous. I killed some stuff with my guns therefore guns now do more damage? lol Anyway thank you so much for easing my concerns. The mod I use for resource scarcity is modular so I will be able to have it only affect health items and trade percentages as to not interfere with your ammo systems. So excited to do my WARS playthrough once I build my new gaming pc. Gonna build it in about 6 months so heres hoping it is playable by then. If not I will tide myself over with my skyrim mod setup I have been building up. Definitely gonna wait until you are definitively done with WARS as I want the full WARS experience. I am patient enough and have other games I wanna play so should be fine.

 

 

I do think about encumbrance systems in games a lot, for whatever reason. Actually I know the reason; it's because they're usually pretty awful, overly simplistic and lazy - and I try to think about how I'd like them to be instead.

 

I'm currently playing 7.62 High Calibre - the Hard Life version specifically - and it comes the closest I've seen to the kind of system I'd like in games. Encumbrance is a matter of weight and volume; you need somewhere to actually put the things you're carrying. Belts, pouches, load-bearing-equipment vests, backpacks, holsters, etc - all with different patterns of storage slots and associated item storage/retrieval speeds based on their location on your character's body. Cataclysm DDA has a similar system, though the interface isn't as good. (Unsurprisingly; it is a rogue-like in the more accurate sense of the term.)

 

What I'd like to see is for games like FO4 to have a system like this - though more dynamic and modular. E.g. you put on something with MOLLE webbing and you can then attach pouches, holsters and whatever other equipment to it wherever you want, provided there's room, it's not too heavy, etc. Couple that with a dynamic animation system so that your character's hands actually go to the right places when grabbing/storing something - which should also dynamically take care of differing storage/retrieval speeds. I think it would add a nice strategic layer to inventory/encumbrance management; working out your ideal efficient gear layout for your play-style.

 

 

Anyway, on Survival Mode mechanics; I imagine I'll be tweaking some of those in PEACE - the disease system sounds like it needs it. I have made some changes in WARS too; notably the Adrenaline system because yeah, I didn't think it made any sense either. In WARS you get bonus kill XP as your Adrenaline level increases, rather than bonus damage.

 

I'm in the same boat with waiting for WARS before I play FO4 again; I haven't played it since I finished my first playthrough when the game came out, in fact. Too many things I wanted changed before I played again.

 

 

Antistar I have one last question for either you or anyone else in here with some basic modding skills who might be willing if they were able to get the right permissions. I am really excited for Fallout Cascadia, Fallout 4 New Vegas, and The Capital Wasteland Project. I would really like it if these amazing mods could have similar changes to WARS in terms of the enemy health scaling. I am not really into the bullet sponge aspect of the Fallout RPGS after having experienced it the other way. I am not really thinking a full time consuming overhaul like the WARS one. But simply the health scaling limitations, damage normalization across calibers (nothing as crazy as WARS just a quick runthrough), and the mods and perks not giving absurd damage increases. Thinking of it though I am pretty sure on of those projects is working a framework for the old skill and perk systems that they are all likely to use so thinking more on this may be asking way too much considering you would have to chance how the gun skills and such affect damage as well as run through a lot more perks to keep things under control. Shoot I really want that action shooter experience for those mods. Though I do think the older games weren't as absurd with the scaling were they? Essentially I want to have all these amazing story experiences to play through but want a more consistent less bullet spongey experience across all of them. I think this would be the ultimate Fallout 4 content setup. All these amazing experiences with WARS for the main game and a similar shooting challenge across the amazing stories we know and love and the new one from Cascadia we are likely to love a ton as well.

 

 

Actor HP normalisation at least shouldn't be too much of an issue. I expanded this FO4Edit "Despongifier" script in order to automate changing the HP of all the actors that needed it, and assuming WhiskyTangoFawks doesn't mind, I'll be able to make that script available so that WARS users can run it on their load order if they're using mods that add new actors.

 

 

I just thought about why I really like resource based difficulty in regards to health like you see in Horizon. It's because I don't like the idea of just getting one shot and not being able to do anything about it. I have just realized how great a fix your ammo changes are as now instead of just being rained on with a hail of bullets you will now be able to react tactically by waiting out their ammo at the cost of not being able to pick it up yourself. I also think the npc accuracy is a little overtuned at long distances but it isn't too bad. Perhaps there is a way to make npc reloads take longer as I believe you said you are doing that with most of the Player Character guns. It would be nice to have gaps during enemy reload times to react and fire back. Obviously if there a ton of enemies their reloads will be staggered so that you may have to re position in such a manner so that you have a clear shot on one enemy that you will able to hit during their reload. I think I can see a ton of potential in your more realistic health system assuming that there are actual tactical gaps and ways to react. With just simple damage changes as I have seen with some other mods it just led to a lot of me dying and not being able to get of situations. Perhaps the combination of reload times and limited ammo will be enough to make it work better. Really really sorry for leaving tons of rants on here it's not that I don't have faith in your ability it is just that I really want a great experience as I haven't been this excited for a mod in the history of ever and want it to be an amazing experience. For example I really like the ru556 and ak5c weapon mods and want to use your integration instructions you are planning on making to add them into the WARS experience assuming you don't have any weapons that are too similar. But having those weapons with see-through-scopes and having yours not have it would be really odd. (hence why I asked if you would allow someone to add a see-through-scopes patch for your weapons. Thanks btw :laugh:) Also I just like seeing my weapon while I am firing it. I find that when your have the blackout scope system it becomes difficult to distinguish weapons from each other as you have no frame of reference other than perhaps sound effects. OOOH Also I remember you saying you weren't going to have custom sound effects for a lot of your guns. Is it still the plan to have the standard gun sound effects applied to each and us having to simply download our favorite gun sound overhauls? Vanilla silenced gun sounds are absolute dogshit lol.

 

 

I've reduced NPC accuracy so that while it may hurt more when you're hit, you should be hit less often.

 

I am tuning reloads to be a bit slower than in vanilla (mainly via omods), but I can't go too far with it because it would look like everyone's moving underwater. New animations are needed to make significant changes there, really.

 

 

How is your mod presented for this year? is on a good path? :D :dance: :-)

 

I did have less time to work on WARS over Christmas and New Year's Eve, like I said - but I squeezed in some time on it where I could. ;)

 

I've been working on the Laser Gun and Institute Laser Gun; just about done there. I think I worked out well enough how to shift things around in their weapon mods to account for recoil handling no longer being an issue with them.

 

I also went over the crafting recipes for all the new and replacer weapons' omods, giving them appropriate components and perk requirements. Apart from that there's been the usual random bits and pieces; e.g. fixing the Hunting Rifle bayonet to have a handle on the player version. I think I did some more load-screens too.

 

Basically for now I'm just soldiering on going through the vanilla weapons and making the required changes.

[kuzi127]

I have to say that I very much appreciate your level of interactivity with the community. It sort of bugs me when I see mod authors take the stance of "don't ask me questions; it'll be ready when it's ready" and actively discourage people from asking about their projects. There are those few bad apples that come off as entitled and sound like they're demanding the mod be finished so they can play it, but in my experience most users are just curious and excited about it.

 

On another note, I was rereading the initial post and noticed a lack of battle rifles (semi-autos firing full rifle rounds like .308). They most likely won't be missed by most people but I have a particular fondness for them, and they were the standard military rifle for most countries in the 50's era that fallout is rooted in. Hopefully it won't be too hard to convert other weapon mods into WARS to add some in. I'll probably end up using my limited modeling skills to modify your AR15 into an AR10 as well.

[Moldy]

I've named Antistar one of the best modders on Nexus for that very reason,Kuzi; He STILL responds to questions and problems for mods as old as Weapon Mod Kits,which is for Fallout 3. And I think that's what makes Antistar so magnetic as a modder; Not only does he respect (most of) his consumers,he maintains an open dialogue,and actively supports his old mods by way of giving advice to people who screw up,or simply have questions.

 

Also,yes,I'd love to see battle rifles. They fill a medium range marksman's niche that few other weapons can.

[antistar]

Well shucks; thanks. My secret to responding to comments is that I do it when I'm procrastinating. ;)

 

On battle rifles; I am pretty keen on getting in that FN FAL listed in the OP. As always though there's a lot of other work to do - and I'd probably use this resource for it which I'd need to do textures for, adding to the work required there.

[celdorash]

So you still gonna go without custom sounds and have us download our own sound effect replacers? Also could you reference me to the page where you explained PEACE or quote it so I can get a general idea? Patiently awaiting the perfect fallout 4 experience. Oh also is it pretty simple to change gun damage values and potentially remove receiver modifiers? Thanks.

[antistar]

Oh, right; you asked about weapon sounds earlier, sorry. You should break up big posts like those into paragraphs; big walls of text are difficult to read.

 

At this stage the replacer weapons (and some of the new additions) use vanilla fire sounds so that users can choose their preferred sound effect replacer for weapons. I use Commonwealth Warfare personally, and the WARS readme will link to it as a suggestion.

 

Some of the new weapons (e.g. the M79, China Lake, M203 under-barrel launcher, Makeshift AMR and M107 AMR) have new fire sound effects, though.

 

I haven't talked about PEACE too much yet because this is the WARS thread and most of PEACE is still just in my head anyway, but search this thread (top-right of the page) for PEACE or SOS (an earlier name for it) and you should find my posts on it.

 

Changing damage values - on weapon records and omods (e.g. receiver omods) - is pretty easy, yes. It becomes more complicated when you're making those changes across dozens of records while trying to create/maintain a consistent system, though.