[WIP] Weapon Addition and Replacement Suite (WARS)

[celdorash]

Just out of curiosity have you looked into talking with some of the devs of Fallout 4 New Vegas to see how they are getting damage thresholds to work? Also can you modify the different calibers or the receivers for the calibers to have different percentage armor penetration values in order to make it so higher caliber bullets naturally pierce armor better? For armor piercing ammo are you going to have it raise penetration by a set percentage?

[antistar]

Yeah, of course, this is the Creation engine so while it has been a while since I played FNV, I wouldn't be surprised if the round-by-round reloads had issues there as well. Figures that the alternate reload system would have issues as well. You know a game engine is REALLY old and outdated when it can't even properly handle round-by-round reloads and tactical reloads.

I don't think it's a case of the engine not being able to handle it; it just needs a bit more attention paid to weapon behaviour, plus the extra animations of course. BGS just didn't want to go to the trouble in FO4, I guess.

 

In FO76 they did finally add a pump-action shotgun that appears to have round-by-round reloads, which is... something, at least.

 

 

Just out of curiosity have you looked into talking with some of the devs of Fallout 4 New Vegas to see how they are getting damage thresholds to work? Also can you modify the different calibers or the receivers for the calibers to have different percentage armor penetration values in order to make it so higher caliber bullets naturally pierce armor better? For armor piercing ammo are you going to have it raise penetration by a set percentage?

The Damage Threshold Framework is apparently what's used in F4NV, and it's got some documentation there. I am still considering it - especially since I noticed from having a brief look at it just now that it can dynamically apply DT to all armour across all mods in your load order, and that the formula it uses to do that can be edited in a config file.

 

It's possible to have different armour penetration values, yes. From what I've seen, the different ammo types and sub-types in AmmoTweaks have varying AP values, appropriate to what they are. I expect that the values isathar has gone with will probably be fine, but I imagine it will be easy for me to edit them to better suit WARS if necessary, too.

[Wylight]

I've been wondering, would it be possible to implement functional hybrid sights such as the Leupold Mark 4 HAMR or leaf sights for the underbarrel grenade launchers? I'd imagine that the game treats the underbarrel attachments like two different weapons that the script is switching between so when the grenade launcher is switched to, the aiming is done through the leaf sights? Speaking of underbarrel attachments, have you considered underbarrel shotguns?

[antistar]

With something like the HAMR, there wouldn't be a smooth transition when switching between the two sights. This kind of thing is done by dynamically attaching/detaching omods via script, but doing so prompts the weapon to re-equip.

 

That's how the under-barrel launchers work too; it's the same weapon, but switching modes causes the weapon equip animation to play. I could possibly finagle things so that switching to launcher mode would switch you to using leaf sights or whatever, but adjustable-elevation sights aren't supported by FO4, so I don't think there's much point.

 

I have considered under-barrel shotguns. It'd be cool - I'd love to have one in there - but it would require a whole bunch of new animations, so it's a low priority for now.

[Wylight]

Didn't Hitman47101 achieve a seamless smooth transition between an M4 carbine and its underbarrel shotgun in Fallout NV? I don't think the mod was ever released but if such a transition was possible in NV then perhaps it would be possible in Fallout 4 too? Even without it, I think a hybrid sight would still be worth it considering we have yet to have a scope zooming capability that actually works without being a cheap gimmick. As for the leaf sights, yeah I know this engine doesn't support a realistically functional one but it'd be a nice addition if you ever consider adding the M320 launcher as well. Anyways, here's the video I was talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YHhMftZ8pQ

[antistar]

The script engine and weapon systems in FNV and FO4 are quite different, so something that worked in FNV may not work in FO4 (and vice-versa of course).

 

I've been told though that the pending update to AmmoTweaks can play an animation on switching omods that (at least partially?) covers up the re-equip, so a smoother transition may be possible there. I haven't seen this in action yet, however.

[Wylight]

I don't have much of a problem with the re-equipping animation so long as it can be done fast enough but the weapon mesh breaks for a split second there. From what I've been able to observe on my own end, this happens only when you're rapidly switching between modded weapons whose assets are too complex and high quality for the engine to render that quickly. I believe this prompts the engine to temporarily rig the weapon you've just switched to, to the animations of the one you've previously had and thus causing the mesh to chaotically freak out because it s trying to load an animation it wasn't designed for. In other words, the engine can't load every asset and animation of a high quality weapon quick enough. From what I have seen, if there is no mesh distortion then the weapon will just simply take longer to draw which is also a problem when trying to switch between omods in a high-pressure situation. I don't believe it can be fixed however unless the weapon assets are optimized in polygon count and texture resolution to fit the vanilla standards which is a compromise that's not worth taking.

[Macnspam]

The script engine and weapon systems in FNV and FO4 are quite different, so something that worked in FNV may not work in FO4 (and vice-versa of course).

 

I've been told though that the pending update to AmmoTweaks can play an animation on switching omods that (at least partially?) covers up the re-equip, so a smoother transition may be possible there. I haven't seen this in action yet, however.

 

I wonder if Isathar has plans to release the dynamic CND part of Ammo tweaks as a separate mod. :O I love the alt firing mode and other features that're being worked on for sure. I'm just bothered by Fallout 4's systems after playing FO76 and having to maintain my weps lol. But here I am sounding like an impatient ass. (Lovely work on your mod by the way antistar, this is a huuuuuuuuge deal and I'm very excited to see WARS and PEACE come out!)

[antistar]

I don't have much of a problem with the re-equipping animation so long as it can be done fast enough but the weapon mesh breaks for a split second there. From what I've been able to observe on my own end, this happens only when you're rapidly switching between modded weapons whose assets are too complex and high quality for the engine to render that quickly. I believe this prompts the engine to temporarily rig the weapon you've just switched to, to the animations of the one you've previously had and thus causing the mesh to chaotically freak out because it s trying to load an animation it wasn't designed for. In other words, the engine can't load every asset and animation of a high quality weapon quick enough. From what I have seen, if there is no mesh distortion then the weapon will just simply take longer to draw which is also a problem when trying to switch between omods in a high-pressure situation. I don't believe it can be fixed however unless the weapon assets are optimized in polygon count and texture resolution to fit the vanilla standards which is a compromise that's not worth taking.

I don't know about the mesh freak-out (seen here, for people who don't know what we're talking about) being caused by the game trying to assign the weapon animations it wasn't made for. It's switching from animations it was designed for to another set of animations it was also designed for.

 

Having said that, I don't know what causes that issue, exactly. It could be some kind of script lag or asset loading issue, it could be something else. Hopefully some aspect of the different system in place in AmmoTweaks will bypass this issue.

 

 

I wonder if Isathar has plans to release the dynamic CND part of Ammo tweaks as a separate mod. :O I love the alt firing mode and other features that're being worked on for sure. I'm just bothered by Fallout 4's systems after playing FO76 and having to maintain my weps lol. But here I am sounding like an impatient ass. (Lovely work on your mod by the way antistar, this is a huuuuuuuuge deal and I'm very excited to see WARS and PEACE come out!)

Me too, yeesh. Can't wait to play FO4 again, this time hopefully without cringing all the time. (I know that sounds mean - and I try not to be too down on what often amounts to a difference in opinion when it comes to game design - but it is actually what was happening when I played vanilla FO4 upon its release.)

[Wylight]

I don't know about the mesh freak-out (seen here, for people who don't know what we're talking about) being caused by the game trying to assign the weapon animations it wasn't made for. It's switching from animations it was designed for to another set of animations it was also designed for.

 

Having said that, I don't know what causes that issue, exactly. It could be some kind of script lag or asset loading issue, it could be something else. Hopefully some aspect of the different system in place in AmmoTweaks will bypass this issue.

 

I don't know, I've seen it happening with unscripted weapons attempting to play the animation of the previously equipped one for a split second and breaking the mesh. Most likely it's an asset loading issue.