[WIP] Weapon Addition and Replacement Suite (WARS)

[Shanzyboo]

The first hotfix is for the whole having to unequip and reequip your firearm after changing ammo sub-types right?

 

Well then...now I know what I'm going to be using power armor for lol..this little vault tec bag can only carry so much.

[PSNtoonjuice]

Thank you for granting me access to the beta!

 

I've put in about 11 hours between two characters and I've been taking notes.
So far, I love what I'm seeing! Combat is vanilla-esque in pacing which is good in my opinion, weapon damage is well balanced in that respect.
The carryweight changes are engaging in the sense that it's now carefully considered when deciding upgrades/perks to prioritise, as well as what gear to bring (and the STALKER style stashes are very cool).
Many of the reworked chem and armor effects are much better with interesting use cases, because yeah, I hated the magic effects too, so it's nice to see some grounding.
But, most importantly, the visual consistency! It's so nice to have a consistent visual style throughout the mod, new stuff and rewoked vanilla stuff alike. Even the shells on the shotgun's ammo carrier changed with the ammo type, it's awesome to look at. Being able to freely change armor styles is a nice bonus too.

 

For reference, I'm a little more than half way through the story with my second character, 7 hours of playtime and at level 14, and have just retrieved the courser chip for Virgil with minimal sidequesting.

 

As far as issues, the most persistent problems I've encountered involve ammo cases and COND messages. I'll go ahead and paste my notes so far below:

Setup

• Did not generate automatic patches, such as M8r98a4f2's Complex Sorter

• Disabled magazine system and magazine spawns, using vanilla FO4 ammo management

• Running the game off an HDD with mid RAM speed (2400 MHz),

• Specs: 1660 Super 6GB, 11th Gen Intel® Core i5-11400 @ 2.60GHz (6 Cores 12 Logical Processors), 32GB of RAM

Balancing

• Pipe revolver is 16lbs!

• .38 Special seems very weak, finding it hard to use early game revolvers effectively

  • Revolvers in general seem a bit weak, even .44 struggles to keep up with shotgun slugs relative to their rate of fire

Issues

• No messages/menu for swapping between exactly two types of ammo (must check Pip-boy to see new ammo type)

• COND messages double up consistently, displaying a strange X/600 COND message alongside weapon COND message, seems to be persistent and reappears soon after loading a save (maybe after swapping weapons a lot?)

• Struggled to get HUDFramework widgets working, Kill Tips and HoloTime 2 worked by comparison

• In one case, shooting a .380 caliber Skorpion generated .38 Spec, .380, and 9x19 cases

  • Confirmed happening even when not having a weapon of that type; when using a shotgun and 9x19 weapon, still generated .380 cases, I’m 99% sure I wasn’t grabbing cases since those are listed lower in the loot menu

• COND messages disappear under some conditions (fixed after reloading a save, happened once)

• Passing time due to crafting (at the Weapon Workbench in my instance) while a conversation is active in another cell will snap the camera back to the conversation, and then break the camera, forcing it at the player’s feet (fixed by opening Pip-boy, happened in Diamond City Market while a conversation with Piper/Mayor McDonough was still happening outside the gate)

• Weapon info displays multiple repeat boxes, usually more info boxes than weapons in the inventory, related to COND messages?

• “Weapon cannot be used until it is cleaned” does not prevent the weapon from being used (needs more testing)

• Sleep ambush warning appears every time sleep is attempted, seemingly in settlements (noted when using the Vault-tec DLC bed, unsure of any correlation)

• Reloading occasionally breaks, reload anim begins and then weapon draw anim plays, filling weapon without full animation (might be a bug with BCR?). This Is not fixed with reloading saves or restarting the game, seemingly breaks/fixes itself at random

• COND can go over the limit, for example a pristine M590 had 900/800 COND

Questions

• Using SSK Fast Start, skips setup scripts/quests? Experienced a somewhat buggier experience using that compared to a save that went through the whole intro, but I can't say definitively

Notably, I haven't engaged with settlement building (and potentially any resource frustrations thereof), manufacturing, cooking, power armor, and camping in the wilderness all that much. Also, I'm using a STR/END guns build, so I haven't engaged with the melee weapons, and I havent yet used heavy weapons. I'm primarily working through the story quests right now, I'll see to using those systems sometime soon.

I haven't applied the hotfix yet either, I'll download that now.

 

I'll link the Google doc I'm using here. Also, this is my modlist and plugins for reference. My aim for this setup was to keep mods minimal, so I'm only using Better Manufacturing/Manufacturing Extended and Modular Military Backpack with their respective patches, otherwise just some QoL stuff.

 

I can make new replies to this thread with updated notes in the future to keep things centralized, and if you're interested in edit rights to the doc, feel free to send me a PM. I won't be able to test for a couple days due to some responsibilities, but I'll get back to it soon. Thanks again for these awesome mods, FO4 really needed this facelift and I'm glad to finally experience it!

Edited April 28, 2023 by PSNtoonjuice

[antistar]

The first hotfix is for the whole having to unequip and reequip your firearm after changing ammo sub-types right?

No, it's a fix for the semi-obscure issue that stellarview reported on the previous page - so see that page for details.

 

The game forces a weapon to re-equip when an OMOD is attached/detached from it - that's what's happening with swapping ammo sub-types.

 

 

Thank you for granting me access to the beta!

 

I've put in about 11 hours between two characters and I've been taking notes.

So far, I love what I'm seeing! Combat is vanilla-esque in pacing which is good in my opinion, weapon damage is well balanced in that respect.

The carryweight changes are engaging in the sense that it's now carefully considered when deciding upgrades/perks to prioritise, as well as what gear to bring (and the STALKER style stashes are very cool).

Many of the reworked chem and armor effects are much better with interesting use cases, because yeah, I hated the magic effects too, so it's nice to see some grounding.

But, most importantly, the visual consistency! It's so nice to have a consistent visual style throughout the mod, new stuff and rewoked vanilla stuff alike. Even the shells on the shotgun's ammo carrier changed with the ammo type, it's awesome to look at. Being able to freely change armor styles is a nice bonus too.

 

For reference, I'm a little more than half way through the story with my second character, 7 hours of playtime and at level 14, and have just retrieved the courser chip for Virgil with minimal sidequesting.

 

As far as issues, the most persistent problems I've encountered involve ammo cases and COND messages. I'll go ahead and paste my notes so far below:

Well thanks - glad you're liking it so far. :smile:

 

And thanks for all the info and bug reports; there's quite a bit there.

 

 

Pipe revolver is 16lbs!

.38 Special seems very weak, finding it hard to use early game revolvers effectively

 

Revolvers in general seem a bit weak, even .44 struggles to keep up with shotgun slugs relative to their rate of fire

The pipe weapons are intended to be pretty crappy all around, including being heavy. That does seem a bit high for the Pipe Revolver though; I'm trying to roughly work out off the top of my head how it could get that heavy. Do you remember what attachments/etc it had?

 

I worked out damage values for the different calibres by starting with their real-world muzzle energy values, to get an idea of how powerful they should be relative to each other. Then I hand-tweaked values that seemed too high or low. .38 Spc is actually one that I already buffed substantially, believe it or not.

 

Not all ammo types are intended to remain viable throughout a playthrough, and .38 Spc is definitely one of them. Something to fob off on settlers, or break down in an ammo factory to make something more powerful with, instead. :wink:

 

In my playthrough I used an M1905 Revolver for a little while early on, since it was more powerful than a PPK and I had some ammo for it, but it was pretty quickly replaced. A .44 Magnum is definitely not going to compete with 12 Ga slugs - but shotguns and their ammo are substantially heavier, as a trade-off. (Naturalistic balancing there, since I used real-world weight values for them, as best I could manage.)

 

 

Struggled to get HUDFramework widgets working, Kill Tips and HoloTime 2 worked by comparison

 

No messages/menu for swapping between exactly two types of ammo (must check Pip-boy to see new ammo type)

 

I grouped these points together since they're related.

 

The HUD-related stuff from AmmoTweaks is something I didn't touch, since I don't really have the software or knowledge to work with HUD widgets. The AmmoTweaks HUD widget works fine for me; I wasn't expecting anyone to encounter problems with it. Were you able to get it working at all, or is it not showing up?

 

The HUD widget shows the current ammo sub-type (and fire-mode or attack-mode, if relevant) after you swap ammo - so the expectation was that you wouldn't need the ammo swap menu to know what you're swapping to. (Also the menu is redundant if there's only one ammo sub-type available to swap to.)

 

I thought AmmoTweaks was set up to show a message with the sub-type you're swapping to though, if the HUD widget is disabled. That's another thing I didn't touch, and admittedly I don't think I've ever tested, since the HUD widget has always worked fine for me. Are you not seeing those messages when you swap ammo?

 

 

COND messages double up consistently, displaying a strange X/600 COND message alongside weapon COND message, seems to be persistent and reappears soon after loading a save (maybe after swapping weapons a lot?)

 

COND messages disappear under some conditions (fixed after reloading a save, happened once)

Similarly I'm guessing this is all AmmoTweaks stuff that only shows up with the HUD widget disabled, since I've never seen messages like that at all. Just to make sure we're on the same page, you're talking about the usual notification-style messages that show up at the top-left of the screen, right?

 

This is all stuff that is part of the AmmoTweaks framework rather than WARS, but I should probably at least try it out with the HUD widget disabled to see how it behaves...

 

Playing with the HUD widget enabled is definitely recommended - strongly recommended - but that doesn't help you if it's not working on your end, so... it'd be good if we can work out how to get it working.

 

 

In one case, shooting a .380 caliber Skorpion generated .38 Spec, .380, and 9x19 cases

 

Confirmed happening even when not having a weapon of that type; when using a shotgun and 9x19 weapon, still generated .380 cases, I’m 99% sure I wasn’t grabbing cases since those are listed lower in the loot menu

Huh... That's a pretty weird one. I haven't seen that on my end. I'm wondering if it could be that the manager script on a weapon that you were using earlier didn't unregister for events on unequip like it's supposed to. I don't know how else it could happen. Even that shouldn't be possible - and obviously it's not happening for me - but this is Papyrus, after all. We're living under constant threat of it deciding to randomly not work at any given moment.

 

Maybe I can add some extra checks in the script to see if the weapon is currently equipped before doing something when these events are received.

 

 

Passing time due to crafting (at the Weapon Workbench in my instance) while a conversation is active in another cell will snap the camera back to the conversation, and then break the camera, forcing it at the player’s feet (fixed by opening Pip-boy, happened in Diamond City Market while a conversation with Piper/Mayor McDonough was still happening outside the gate)

This sounds unrelated to WARS or PEACE, but instead caused simply by having a scene that includes scripted camera angles playing in a different cell.

 

When time is advanced in either mod, it's just the GameHour global being set to a later time; it's very simple and shouldn't interfere with anything else. (Unless that thing relies heavily on what time it is, exactly, but such a thing could also be disrupted by waiting or sleeping, in that case.)

 

These scripted camera angles can be janky all on their own. I'm playing through the Sim Settlements 2 quests and they use them pretty frequently - with similar things going wrong with them reasonably often.

 

 

Weapon info displays multiple repeat boxes, usually more info boxes than weapons in the inventory, related to COND messages?

I have seen this - but only a couple of times much earlier in the playthrough, and each time it was only one extra messagebox, for a different weapon. Loading a save fixed it, and I'm not sure what caused it. Could be the same thing with the weapon manager script not unregistering for events, if that's something that is happening. We'll see if I can fix that. (Though it'll be difficult to test since I don't know how to reproduce the issue.)

 

 

“Weapon cannot be used until it is cleaned” does not prevent the weapon from being used (needs more testing)

Was that the "Weapon inoperable until cleaned" message upon equipping a "Filthy" weapon? I haven't let a weapon get that dirty in my playthrough, though it worked fine when I tested it.

 

Technically it's using an OMOD that sets the weapon's ammo to a dummy one called "Inoperable Weapon" that the player won't have any of, meaning it can't be fired. Maybe the ammo sub-type OMODs can override it in certain circumstances? I'll try setting its priority higher.

 

If you can give me more info though, like what kind of weapon it was and what ammo type/sub-type it was using (and if "Inoperable" showed up as its current ammo), that may help.

 

 

Sleep ambush warning appears every time sleep is attempted, seemingly in settlements (noted when using the Vault-tec DLC bed, unsure of any correlation)

The kind of bed doesn't matter here (though using one of the tents in PEACE does, if you're outside).

 

If you're in a Workshop settlement, there's still a chance for a sleep ambush unless the settlement's Defense value is high enough. Established towns like Diamond City should be perfectly safe, though. (All of this can be tweaked in the MCM menu.)

 

 

Reloading occasionally breaks, reload anim begins and then weapon draw anim plays, filling weapon without full animation (might be a bug with BCR?). This Is not fixed with reloading saves or restarting the game, seemingly breaks/fixes itself at random

This is probably from an OMOD getting attached, since that forces a re-equip, as mentioned.

 

E.g. the check to see if the weapon suffers permanent damage (which swaps out the receiver OMOD) happens on reload, for various technical reasons, and to be less punishing than having it check every time the weapon is fired. Also the forced re-equip is less disruptive if it happens when the weapon is already in a state where it can't fire - i.e. a reload.

 

 

COND can go over the limit, for example a pristine M590 had 900/800 COND

I was a bit puzzled by this at first, but I'm glad you mentioned the numbers and that it was the Mossberg, because it meant I could check its properties. Its maximum COND is 800, but base AmmoTweaks has a thing where the actual maximum is 1.2x that value, with "Pristine" originally being "Boosted", off the top of my head.

 

I was happy to leave that behind the scenes (or so I thought) so that I didn't need to mess around with those calculations in AmmoTweaks, but I didn't realise that it showed the literal COND values - and in that format - in the COND notifications, since I've never used them, like I said.

 

 

Using SSK Fast Start, skips setup scripts/quests? Experienced a somewhat buggier experience using that compared to a save that went through the whole intro, but I can't say definitively

I was thinking about fast/alternate-start mods when I made WARS and PEACE; nothing in them is initialised by the intro quest/location stuff - so this shouldn't be an issue.

 

 

I'll link the Google doc I'm using here. Also, this is my modlist and plugins for reference. My aim for this setup was to keep mods minimal, so I'm only using Better Manufacturing/Manufacturing Extended and Modular Military Backpack with their respective patches, otherwise just some QoL stuff.

 

I can make new replies to this thread with updated notes in the future to keep things centralized, and if you're interested in edit rights to the doc, feel free to send me a PM. I won't be able to test for a couple days due to some responsibilities, but I'll get back to it soon. Thanks again for these awesome mods, FO4 really needed this facelift and I'm glad to finally experience it!

Thanks again for all the info. :smile:

 

Posting here in the WIP thread/s would be helpful, yeah.

 

 

Edit: I actually tried disabling the AmmoTweaks HUD widget in the MCM menu just now, and... it didn't seem to work. The HUD widget stayed there, even after reloading the save, so... that might make it hard to test those notifications on my end.

Edited April 29, 2023 by antistar

[antistar]

Hey, testers:

 

You know what, just to make sure; are you all seeing the AmmoTweaks HUD widget in your game? It should look more or less like this, to use an image from AmmoTweaks' Mod DB page. A COND (or "CND", I guess) bar, plus the current ammo sub-type (and potentially fire mode).

[stellarview]

Okay, I think I've fixed that issue. I was sceptical that using that "UnequipItem" script function would actually work on ammo, but it seems like it does.

 

I'll give it a few hours' play-testing to see if it causes any immediate issues, and then upload it as a hotfix so you (testers) can grab it. If that bug is causing any of you a lot of grief though, bug me about it and I'll upload it sooner.

 

Thanks for letting me know about it, stellarview. :smile:

You're welcome. Everything is working well with the hotfix.

 

Hey, testers:

 

You know what, just to make sure; are you all seeing the AmmoTweaks HUD widget in your game? It should look more or less like this, to use an image from AmmoTweaks' Mod DB page. A COND (or "CND", I guess) bar, plus the current ammo sub-type (and potentially fire mode).

I've seeing the widget on my end, although I also can't disable it and it doesn't seem like any MCM settings affect the widget.

[Longstrider92]

I have been using the widget but to be fair haven't tried to disable it and have had no issues with vanilla weapons or modded patched weapons switching either. Strangely though occasionally my modded magazine will disappear like the mesh just goes poof and it still acts like I have the correct magazine inserted. After this happens I get a separate mod item exactly the same as the spares but it doesn't function that way Manufacturing is working well on my end breaking things down and crafting them. Another Life was working fine for a while and then suddenly it just stopped teleporting me to the Processing center. Which is odd because it worked for 5 previous starts and I didn't change anything to Another Life.

[AmadeusOnagro]

Now this is a mod I'm watching for quite some time. I'm happy it got to closed beta stage, looking forward to the final release.

[123yozard123]

yes i see the widget

[Longstrider92]

Anti I don't know if its intentional or not but I did notice there are no 3rd person vertical grips for the AR15, they just revert to normal handguard grips.

[antistar]

Thanks everyone. It's good to know that I didn't leave out a file or something when packaging everything up, and it was a load-bearing file that meant I was the only one actually seeing the AmmoTweaks HUD widget. ;)

I've seeing the widget on my end, although I also can't disable it and it doesn't seem like any MCM settings affect the widget.

Same as me, then. I'm thinking the functionality for disabling the HUD widget maybe wasn't tested as much as other parts of AmmoTweaks - or perhaps even fully implemented. And I can't imagine many people wanting to have periodic notifications about weapon condition and whatnot rather than a HUD element, so maybe that's fair enough.

 

I might remove those options from the MCM menu, or at least add a note saying that they don't seem to do anything.

I have been using the widget but to be fair haven't tried to disable it and have had no issues with vanilla weapons or modded patched weapons switching either. Strangely though occasionally my modded magazine will disappear like the mesh just goes poof and it still acts like I have the correct magazine inserted. After this happens I get a separate mod item exactly the same as the spares but it doesn't function that way Manufacturing is working well on my end breaking things down and crafting them. Another Life was working fine for a while and then suddenly it just stopped teleporting me to the Processing center. Which is odd because it worked for 5 previous starts and I didn't change anything to Another Life.

I don't think I've seen anything like what you describe with magazines "disappearing". I... could do with some more info. Which weapon/s and magazine/s was it? What do you mean exactly when you say it still works like the correct mag is inserted? (E.g. is it still showing that mag in the list, with the usual effects, when you use a weapon workbench? Does the weapon still have the same capacity?) Was there anything you did to resolve this? Screenshots may help, if that's possible.

 

As for identical spare mags showing up as separate stacks in your inventory, I get that too - no more than two stacks for each mag type, though. It does seem to be caused by the Physical Mags system - maybe the game considers some of them to be discrete references - but I haven't observed any practical effect from them appearing this way. Seems to be purely cosmetic, basically.

 

What kind of things were you scrapping and manufacturing, out of interest? Is it kind of a simple setup or a more complex factory? Oh - and are you using Manufacturing Extended and Better Manufacturing, along with the patch/es? I'm pretty curious to hear how people get on with the manufacturing stuff. I spent a lot of time developing that side of things.

 

I don't know much about Another Life - but its description there does mention a lot of weapons and custom perks and whatnot that come with the different starting scenarios. Hard to say without looking it over in FO4Edit, but there's potential for conflicts there. I can't imagine anything in WARS or PEACE being able to impact it teleporting you to this "processing centre", though.

Anti I don't know if its intentional or not but I did notice there are no 3rd person vertical grips for the AR15, they just revert to normal handguard grips.

You mean the grip animation? Yeah, the AR-15 animations were made (by Hitman47101) very early on, before he started doing third-person anims - so they don't have any. No custom third-person anims, anyway; it's using vanilla anims for that.

 

Maybe I'll get time to give it proper third-person grip animations at least when I'm doing the Tactical Reload stuff. (Don't know about the reloads; that's a lot more work, obviously.)