[WIP] Weapon Addition and Replacement Suite (WARS)

[Moldy]

Hmm... Power armour sets your Strength to 11,so if someone wants to meet a gun's Strength requirement,they will literally always have an option to do so. It's just a matter of if the player is willing to use the walking tank. I think imposing accuracy,stability,and recoil penalties to ranged weapons you're too weak to use would be perfect. As for melee weapons...

 

Melee swing speed is determined by the animation,from what I can tell. I don't think you'll be able to interact with it. Maybe a harsh damage penalty for not meeting the Strength requirement?

[passinglurker]

a speed penalty just for holding makes sense to me not so much heavy weapons but for awkward bulky weapons like minigun, junkjet, broadsider, etc.

For something like a handgun or assault rifle the difference between holding and running with it in your hands, vs. in your magic invisible pack I imagine wouldn't be enough to register to most users. If its a weapon that anyone can heft no problem but only the strong won't flinch from the recoil of firing like 12ga shotguns, .308 hunting rifles, and 10mm/.44cal magnum pistols then the penalty should be more about accuracy, recoil, ap cost, and delaying refocusing the cross-hare after a shot

[antistar]

I've mentioned this before in the thread (because it's a real pain), but unfortunately you can only affect recoil values in Aim Model and Object Modification records - not perks, "enchantments", abilities, etc. Otherwise increased recoil would almost certainly be one of the penalties I'd consider for this.

 

Really big and bulky weapons like those are definitely the ones I'd give the highest requirements to, and the harshest penalties. Probably a full 10 STR for those specific examples, and possibly as high as a 50% movement speed penalty. (I'd have to test all this to see how it feels, of course.) As for regular handguns, rifles, etc being comparatively easier to handle, that's why I'd give them a milder movement speed (and whatever else) penalty, and substantially lower STR requirements. Trying for some consistent mechanics here, though. ;)

 

Oh - and for what it's worth, I may not have ever touched a real firearm (Australian computer nerd, as mentioned), but I did do air rifle shooting for a while as a teenager. Those rifles were big and heavy; my aim would wobble all over the place, and there's no way I would have been running anywhere with one. I know you're talking about the difference between carrying in your hands and carrying on your back not being that great in terms of running with weight, but I'm working with the mechanics I've got at the moment. (I.e. effects active when something is equipped.) Slower movement when your overall carry weight is getting high is an obvious mechanic (that used to be in Bethsoft's games, even) I've thought about. That might need F4SE though, and it's something I'll probably look at later on for PEACE, anyway.

 

I was definitely conscious of all this being obviated if you hop into some power armour; that's the idea, really. :) Power armour's pretty handy.

 

Ah yeah, I have heard that about melee weapon swing speed apparently being determined by their animations. Ranged weapons can have their fire/reload animations sped up via omods though, so I wonder why it would be different for melee weapons, if that's true... In any case, a simple damage penalty for melee weapons does make sense.

[Moldy]

Another penalty to consider for not meeting a gun's strength requirement; Handling characteristics. Slower to draw and holster,slower to bring up to aim,slower to reload. That kind of stuff. If it's too heavy for you to properly use,then it's too heavy for you to be moving its weight around like that with any degree of confidence and finesse.

[antistar]

I'd have to go check, but some of those things may be restricted to omods again, like recoil values. Thanks for the suggestions though; I've noted them down.

[Slostenn]

Making the aim wobble around when you don't meet a weapon's particular strength requirement seems very reminiscent of how the Guns skill worked in New Vegas, where the lower it was, the more your aim would wobble (which lead to some hilariously extreme results with mods like Dust and Obscurum that started you at literally 0). That seems like the best option to me since increased recoil is, so far, not an option. It's certainly grounded in reality as well; I find myself fatigued fairly quickly when shoulder firing my CETME. Granted, that thing is abnormally heavy (and I'm not exactly in peak physical condition), but I can imagine an AR15 with everything but the kitchen sink quickly getting cumbersome.

That's actually something I'm not sure of: can you increase the strength requirement with omod entries? I feel like the more the weapon weighs, the higher the strength it should require, but I'm not sure if that's possible. Even if it is possible, how small can the increments be? It wouldn't make much sense for, say, a small red dot sight to increase the strength requirement by an entire point, but it would if several attachments increased it by small enough increments that it added up to one or two points. Even if it can only be done in increments of 1 entire point at minimum (which is what I would bet on), it would still make sense for some of the larger attachments like under barrel grenade launchers.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Tukster

[kuzi127]

Idk if it's completely possible, but have you looked at using scripts to apply omods for recoil? The next version of ammotweaks is supposed to have a feature involving adding/removing omods based on weapon condition, maybe you could see how isathar did it and create something similar. It could be a check on equip to see what kind of weapon was equipped (rifle, pistol, auto, etc.) and what level of the repective perk you have, and applies an omod based on that. It could get heavy pretty quick though, especially with on-the-fly firemode switching. My scripting knowledge is definitely very basic, and I've only messed with it once in NV and couldn't get it to work well, so take this with some salt.

 

Absolutely love the mod and the progress btw, been following since I saw the mesh edits for the handmade rifle pop up on nexus. Would be perfect for a Last of Us inspired overhaul I'm planning.

[dragonslayer2k12]

The magnum revolver rifle mod drains AP as you fire it unless you are wearing PA so there is something there if you need to know how to do something like that.

[Radsweeper]

As far as weight is concerned, a vanilla US M-16 weight in at about 8lbs (3,6kg) empty without any tacticool items or ammo added. At work I routinely handle steel bars that weight @10lbs (4,53kg) and yes if I handle them for any given amount of time yeah they tends to wobble. And this not combat and tired from running. So your average vault dweller initially would have a shaky aim at best when first using one.

 

Sorry if this comparison seems lame to some, but there is a severe lack of available ARs here in the great white north to allow better description...

Edited October 17, 2017 by Radsweeper

[antistar]

That's actually something I'm not sure of: can you increase the strength requirement with omod entries? I feel like the more the weapon weighs, the higher the strength it should require, but I'm not sure if that's possible. Even if it is possible, how small can the increments be? It wouldn't make much sense for, say, a small red dot sight to increase the strength requirement by an entire point, but it would if several attachments increased it by small enough increments that it added up to one or two points. Even if it can only be done in increments of 1 entire point at minimum (which is what I would bet on), it would still make sense for some of the larger attachments like under barrel grenade launchers.

This is something I've been thinking about too. For example I think I mentioned earlier that if you took the lightest, most compact configuration of the Mossberg 590 in WARS and slapped a PVS-4 Starlight scope on it, you'd basically double the weapon's weight.

 

It may be possible to add a keyword to certain particularly heavy omods that the STR-requirement "enchantment" on the weapon could use in conditions. Having to check for the actor's STR, certain perks and those keywords may make those conditions pretty complicated, though - and I also have to think about how to communicate all this to the player. I.e. what is the weapon's STR requirement, is it being modified by anything, do you currently meet the requirement, if not what are the penalties, etc.

 

There may be a more elegant solution to be had by using a script that just checks the weight of the equipped weapon against whatever, but I get the feeling that would require certain functions in F4SE that may or may not even be there yet, and... well, see below re: my feelings on scripting. ;)

 

 

Idk if it's completely possible, but have you looked at using scripts to apply omods for recoil? The next version of ammotweaks is supposed to have a feature involving adding/removing omods based on weapon condition, maybe you could see how isathar did it and create something similar. It could be a check on equip to see what kind of weapon was equipped (rifle, pistol, auto, etc.) and what level of the repective perk you have, and applies an omod based on that. It could get heavy pretty quick though, especially with on-the-fly firemode switching. My scripting knowledge is definitely very basic, and I've only messed with it once in NV and couldn't get it to work well, so take this with some salt.

 

Absolutely love the mod and the progress btw, been following since I saw the mesh edits for the handmade rifle pop up on nexus. Would be perfect for a Last of Us inspired overhaul I'm planning.

I've mentioned this as a possibility earlier in the thread, and talked to isathar about it - more in the context of changing weapon skill perks to improve recoil handling rather than increase damage, but still.

 

Basically it sounds like it may be possible, but I keep baulking at the thought of trying to set up the conditions for it. When should it check if it should apply - or remove - the omod? When should it actually do the swap? What if conditions change suddenly in the middle of a fight and the weapon is unequipped/equipped because an omod has been swapped out? Is it going to be doing all this on NPCs too? Etc, etc. Bleh...

 

Also... I hate scripting. I feel like a... well I was going to say I feel like a bull in a china shop, but I don't know; I do usually manage to hack together something that works eventually. Okay, if you imagine the bull standing gingerly in the middle of the china shop trying not to knock anything over, frowning in concentration while he tries to pick up a tiny tea cup with his big dumb hooves - that's how I feel about scripting.