myrmaad Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 jim_uk I'm not sure how I did it but I was able to lie to Esbern. I know that I looked up what to do online real quick because I was distraught over the choice. I could swear I saw somewhere that it's possible to lie to Esbern and that is what I did, but I have not been able to find any information about it since I started looking again. It is possible I moved the quest forward slightly, via the console but I just can't understand why I can't find any information on it again. It's the same old story isn't it? Bethesda did the same in Oblivion and I resented it then too. I don't want to be werewolf, I don't want to join the thieves guild and while so far I've managed workarounds, it makes no sense whatsoever that finding the Dragon Thu'ums is dependent on joining a faction and the only reason for that is non-immersive that Beth wants to make sure you get the total game experience the first time. It's not that big a deal to me because I know that I'm getting the creation kit and I will be able to fix these type issues. I hope they release it tomorrow, I have a notebook full of notes and I hate waiting. As far as the following comment. You chose not to do certain quests, but don't want to accept that this means things in those quests will be unavailable? I chose not to go to work once, and the ungrateful sods didn't pay me. Can't work that out. You made a valid choice not to do a certain thing....this logically results in you not being able to do anything directly requiring that certain thing. I can choose not to go to a zoo or the north pole....funnily enough that means I'm not going to see a polar bear in real life. You used choice not to do something and are complaining that this results in a lack of further choice relating to that initial choice. Well......duh. Do you really believe that sort of rude attitude is appropriate? I don't. We are discussing things in the game that we'd like to change, and since the game is by its very nature a moddable game, all the issues discussed in this thread are fair game. Your other post was hidden. If you make a habit of similar personal attacks as you used in that post, your days with us will be short, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrotek Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Open World doesnt mean doing everything your way. See it as real life, you got a open world there too, but cant do whatever you want withhout downsides to it. Also it woud be pretty boring if you really woud get everything you want withhout downsides ... Edited December 31, 2011 by Cyrotek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8films Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Do you really believe that sort of rude attitude is appropriate? I don't. We are discussing things in the game that we'd like to change, and since the game is by its very nature a moddable game, all the issues discussed in this thread are fair game. Your other post was hidden. If you make a habit of similar personal attacks as you used in that post, your days with us will be short, indeed. I already reported him. He's been on the Nexus about 1/5th of the time I've been on, and picking on a Premium member no less. Edited December 31, 2011 by xlr8films Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesapien Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I agree with your sentiments. I hated the Rifton quest lines being forced on me when I was merely following the main quest. Yeah, the player can ignore their own dialogue options and updated quest book and just find another way, but then it feels like you're working around what the developers had planned for you, like a stubborn rebel gamer against the game. Hate that. I hated that I couldn't defend Whiterun, my new home, without joining the Imperials. That battle won't even happen unless your character does something very specific, as if you caused it when really it has nothing to do with you. I hated that dragons won't appear until you do this and then that and then this, none of which should actually have a cause and effect relationship with dragons appearing. On my second playthrough, my character tried to free another prisoner from some passing Imperials, actually just stopped to question them, but was attacked after not walking away. Then I couldn't go to Whiterun because they all have ESP and somehow knew of the fight and knew exactly who I was and would attack me on sight so couldn't even start the main quest. I freak'n broke the main quest just by reacting realistically in a scenario. It's an open world as long as you don't do any quests. Every quest is step by step linear. No quests tho and nothing really happens in the open world. It's like your character needs to trigger everything that happens in Skyrim. It's still my game of the year but not because of anything trying to be epic in this game. It's the little things, the unscripted stuff that just happens, and when I'm not following any quests; that's when this game is at its best. Fantastic "platform" for a truly superb game. Hope they hand it off to the community... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Open World doesnt mean doing everything your way. See it as real life, you got a open world there too, but cant do whatever you want withhout downsides to it. Also it woud be pretty boring if you really woud get everything you want withhout downsides ... As I was saying though, they could have provided tough choices, if you wanted to go down a path other than becoming a werewolf, just to take an example, that you had to complete further really tough quests to prove yourself. Same principle could be applied to other "conflicts of interest." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xlr8films Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Open World doesnt mean doing everything your way. See it as real life, you got a open world there too, but cant do whatever you want withhout downsides to it. Also it woud be pretty boring if you really woud get everything you want withhout downsides ... As I was saying though, they could have provided tough choices, if you wanted to go down a path other than becoming a werewolf, just to take an example, that you had to complete further really tough quests to prove yourself. Same principle could be applied to other "conflicts of interest." This is reflected very heavily in the (absence of) dialogue, too. You can start ten convos with ten NPCs, and you're gonna end up riding a rail in pretty much every one of them. The one with Estburn being a prime example (T-Guild.) There are next to no Speech Checks, and I haven't seen one Ability Check yet. I don't even know if Perk Checks are possible til the CS releases. You'd think these guys would have learned something from Obsidian with New Vegas. The absence of dialogue is surely impacting the absence of choice. Poorly written, really. Edited December 31, 2011 by xlr8films Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboUK Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 jim_uk I'm not sure how I did it but I was able to lie to Esbern. I know that I looked up what to do online real quick because I was distraught over the choice. I could swear I saw somewhere that it's possible to lie to Esbern and that is what I did, but I have not been able to find any information about it since I started looking again. It is possible I moved the quest forward slightly, via the console but I just can't understand why I can't find any information on it again. It's the same old story isn't it? Bethesda did the same in Oblivion and I resented it then too. I don't want to be werewolf, I don't want to join the thieves guild and while so far I've managed workarounds, it makes no sense whatsoever that finding the Dragon Thu'ums is dependent on joining a faction and the only reason for that is non-immersive that Beth wants to make sure you get the total game experience the first time. It's not that big a deal to me because I know that I'm getting the creation kit and I will be able to fix these type issues. I hope they release it tomorrow, I have a notebook full of notes and I hate waiting. It's nice to know there may be a way, if you do remember please post the answer. My last character was being asked to kill something that departed a long time ago. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Open World doesnt mean doing everything your way. See it as real life, you got a open world there too, but cant do whatever you want withhout downsides to it. Also it woud be pretty boring if you really woud get everything you want withhout downsides ... Yeah, but that doesn't mean they have to force certain guilds on you. Even more so, since in a sane world, noone in that particular guild would want my character joining. Once again I present you with the mages guild example. It absolutely isn't my choice joining up with them and up until that moment on the bridge I haven't cast a single spell. I'm only going there because the game pushes me into it. From a certain point onwards, you can't continue with the main quest unless you got there. And going there means joining. Let me give you another example of how to do it better. In Morrowind, although I'm fully aware that the game is aged, there were certain requirements for joining up and going through the ranks of any given guild or faction. That's how it should be. Limitations to overcome and not some force feeding effort to satisfy the (probably) youngest audience, who usually wants it all in one go. There's another game developed by Bethesda doing it better. Fallout 3. In order to continue with the main quest, you had multiple independant options. Do a certain guy a favor, do your own research or simply stumble upon the clues. You weren't forced into just one avenue that you absolutely didn't want to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrotek Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 (edited) Open World doesnt mean doing everything your way. See it as real life, you got a open world there too, but cant do whatever you want withhout downsides to it. Also it woud be pretty boring if you really woud get everything you want withhout downsides ... As I was saying though, they could have provided tough choices, if you wanted to go down a path other than becoming a werewolf, just to take an example, that you had to complete further really tough quests to prove yourself. Same principle could be applied to other "conflicts of interest." Sorry but you just dont get it. It might be true, that there are a lot of quests and stuff that are missing choices. But that one questline isnt such a thing. They tell you why you cant get higher in ranks withhout beeing a werewolf and you shoud maybe just bow down to it. You have to pay your taxes also and cant convince anyone to do "something else" instead. Stupid comparison, i know.Next that are people asking for are choices for the DB questline like "Astrid, i dont want to kill them!" or what? Iam really looking forward to some alterations of certain quests and such stuff (Take the Paarthurnax killquest as a example, why i cant lie about it?), but not like that. edit: wrong quote. Edited December 31, 2011 by Cyrotek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesapien Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Open World doesnt mean doing everything your way. See it as real life, you got a open world there too, but cant do whatever you want withhout downsides to it. Also it woud be pretty boring if you really woud get everything you want withhout downsides ... As I was saying though, they could have provided tough choices, if you wanted to go down a path other than becoming a werewolf, just to take an example, that you had to complete further really tough quests to prove yourself. Same principle could be applied to other "conflicts of interest." Sorry but you just dont get it. It might be true, that there are a lot of quests and stuff that are missing choices. But that one questline isnt such a thing. They tell you why you cant get higher in ranks withhout beeing a werewolf and you shoud maybe just bow down to it. You have to pay your taxes also and cant convince anyone to do "something else" instead. Stupid comparison, i know.Next that are people asking for are choices for the DB questline like "Astrid, i dont want to kill them!" or what? Iam really looking forward to some alterations of certain quests and such stuff (Take the Paarthurnax killquest as a example, why i cant lie about it?), but not like that. edit: wrong quote. No, you don't have to pay taxes. But, yes, you did use this as a bad example. It seems to me you're not really listening and just hearing something based on some biases you might have from your experience with others. The posters here are not asking for freedom in the sense of laziness. They are more akin to those asking for the liberty to make harder choices. The difference is subtle on the surface but worlds apart beneath. My impression is that they're asking for a deeper game with greater challenges to replace what merely seems arbitrary and tacked on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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