Coltz Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I know that some people have already mentioned that you are almost dragooned into joining the Thieves Guild in order to find Esbjern, well it's the easiest way to find him. You talk to the owner of the Riften inn if you don't want to join the Thieves Guild. Apparently people want more choice, but they want more choice to be smashed directly in their face with map markers so they don't have to think about it. We should probably go right ahead and put a map marker on Wuunferth the Unliving during the Blood on the Ice quest as well. Brain not required. But there ARE other annoyances that I have found. For one thing I have absolutely zero interest in playing as a werewolf (and very rarely do I play as a vampire until the vampire overhauls come out...). In a game that is meant to be a big, free, open world I find that playing as a monster is too restricting, although as my thief/assassin/mage type girls are utterly charming until the moment they sneak round your back and put Mehrunes' Razor in it, some of the vampire powers could work for them..."Look deep into my eyes...." So I was pretty hacked off when I found out that you were forced to become a Werewolf to complete the Companions Questline, and that curing your Lycanthropy is sometimes glitched unless you use the console. Fine, so I am not doing that questline, I said... So because of a completely unintentional glitch you can easily fix with the console, the questline where you become a werewolf and can subsequently completely reject it by curing it, or keep it, is somehow 'lacking in choice' as a result? Joining the Circle requires becoming a werewolf. Whatever justification you use for it, even down to being caught on the spur of the moment, you'll soon be smashing the face off of your wolf spirit in no time. And then the same for Farkas and Vilkas. Unfortunately, this has kind of ruined another quest that I had made up myself. Little Emilie (a Breton as beastly in Skyrim as ever she was in Oblivion or Morrowind), achieved Thu'um Master (discovered all 20 shouts) the other day. This does not mean that you have all three words for each, so I decided my quest was to find all of them. Unfortunately, I have discovered that at least two so far are dependant on doing the Companions quests. Fire Breath - she IS something of a pyromaniac - the last Word is in a Dungeon that only opens up for a Companions quest. You chose not to do certain quests, but don't want to accept that this means things in those quests will be unavailable? I chose not to go to work once, and the ungrateful sods didn't pay me. Can't work that out. You made a valid choice not to do a certain thing....this logically results in you not being able to do anything directly requiring that certain thing. I can choose not to go to a zoo or the north pole....funnily enough that means I'm not going to see a polar bear in real life. You used choice not to do something and are complaining that this results in a lack of further choice relating to that initial choice. Well......duh.I agree with this guy :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I agree with Ginny, and quite honestly I am a bit tired of all of the new people who joined this site during the hype. Being forced to kill Parthunax to continue with the Blades was the one that really annoyed me, he's flown away so why can't I lie to them?This. I had to use the damn console to wipe out the "blades." what the f*** Bethesda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 The discussion is about them all, as far as I can see. Might be different things to different people, but for me the discussion is about the game forcing choices and certain guilds down our throats. Regardless of gamestyle or preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAV Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 There are many sorts of people who play the RPG type games Bethesda is good at. In this day and age some want a fast paced action game where you can do all the quests quickly and "Level up". I see many people saying they "finished" the game. (I have played 196 hours and am still discovering people, places and quests.) There are others, myself among them who want to be able to "Role Play". My first character is always a bit like me and has most of my values. I was horrified at becoming a Werewolf, immediately loaded a previous save paused the game and just sat considering what to do next. I suppose in a way it was interesting that a game made me think that way, but I agree 100%, you need more freedom to be able to role play properly. I had great hopes for Skyrim, and while it is an amazing game, I would have liked more choices, less forcing. Still Bethesda has to appeal to the biggest market in this cut throat world. I suspect a lot of us are waiting for the CK to make the game more what we want. Imagine playing Oblivion now without mods!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) Still Bethesda has to appeal to the biggest market in this cut throat world. I suspect a lot of us are waiting for the CK to make the game more what we want. Imagine playing Oblivion now without mods!! That's the main problem - with almost every game. The mass market appeal. And the mass market is obviously where the textspeech achievement collector kids have set up shop. I remember Morrowind and whilst I'm not amongst those who still sing it's praises I have some kind of nostalgia for not being able to join each and every guild with one single character, let alone being man handled into them. Nowadays you can only hope fro the modding community to make the game a little more adult and steer it away from the "I want it all" mainstream. Edited January 1, 2012 by abaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewjew90 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 This might be a little less intrusive, but I decides to collect all the dragon priest masks in the game and had to finish the mainquest and the mages guild on my pure warrior.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodfellowGoodspring Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I dont think i will see a game as truly 'free choice' and open world into we get real AI into the games where the game can create events and respond to any situation. As for being driven towards a certain path (something i hate in the Fable games) there is enough content which allows this and restricting areas for certain quests would make the game last longer, i think its just about balance and the player's playing preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesapien Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Are we really such a minority that profits for a game developer would go down? Sometimes, I think that the greatest games are the ones where developers took a risk by breaking away and really making a game that they wanted to play and not just saying that while accepting trophies. Genre stamped games might have a larger customer base but actually have greater competition among one another, as well, like back to back or simultaneous blockbuster releases. Being the new kid on a novel block can pay off, too, whilst others play catch up and flatter with mimicry.I'm guessing that if Beth doesn't make a course correction, they'll continue to do well, but a new star will arise. In many ways, I kind of think Skyrim gave many new players a taste and inkling of what a certain type of gaming experience could be like. They did many things right in wetting our palettes, and the corrections we're discussing wouldn't be difficult to make happen.So even if Beth goes one way, I still appreciate the stage setting and exposure and am excited for what's to come next from maybe a just now forming developer who gets it. ...trying to be optimistic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) As for being driven towards a certain path (something i hate in the Fable games) there is enough content which allows this and restricting areas for certain quests would make the game last longer, i think its just about balance and the player's playing preferences. But like it or not, if you want to finish the main quest, you are driven towards a certain path. You have to join the mages. Going there means joining. Afterwards you can of course choose to ignore their questlines, but why would they even want you to join when you've got nothing to offer? The problem seems to be the sandbox - as in kindergarten. It caters to people, who don't see a need for requirements. To people, who don't want to find a place in that wide open world and think nothing of joining each and every guild with one character. For me it's immersion breaking, but probably it's one of the things that can be fixed by the modding community. Are we really such a minority that profits for a game developer would go down? There are tremendeous amounts of money involved. I understand the need to find a large audience. It doesn't do the "art" any good though, since that really means producing something that the drooling idiot can play. What I don't understand though is the so called streamlining, since the idiot can leave certain elements out if things get too complicated. A player looking for quality on the other hand can't add what isn't there to begin with. Another atrocious element being introduced with the use of online services are the achievements. They of course attract a totally wrong sort of crowd - at least when it comes to RPGs. I for one never once looked at any achievements in any kind of game. So even if Beth goes one way, I still appreciate the stage setting and exposure and am excited for what's to come next from maybe a just now forming developer who gets it. ...trying to be optimistic... But it won't happen, since independant developers are a thing of the past. Large corporations have swallowed up nearly each and every company worth buying. And their credo is "looking for the COD crowd". Edited January 1, 2012 by abaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djinx187 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I like having a choice to join all of the guilds because there really would be why Guild A would hate Guild B.(Being the leader of all of them seems a tad bit silly though). I mean in Skyrim both the db and mages college have ties to the thieves guild which is pretty cool. The whole dungeons being blocked off because of not joining quests is just annoying. I mean they already swap rename bandits for random areas for the silver hand during the companion's questline why couldn't they open up the others dungeons and do that for them as well instead of having a cheap wall block off the dungeon. Honestly just seems like a lack of time thing more then anything else. Oh and being force fed the dragonstone quest and kill the dragon quest just annoys the crap out of me. At least in Oblivion to start the main quest after the escape you had to go some small area that didn't interfere with other parts of the game. The mage's college I found out you can actually skip accidentally by roaming around thankfully and Bryn you can avoid as well but he really is more then a pain in the ass and you have to be quick. (One time I tried skipping him I made it to Esbern and then he walked up and broke my conversation with esbern then ended up bugging the main quest and bugged out riften completely the whole town was stuck watching him do his speech. heck I didn't even think he could run off that far) Then you got quests like no stone unturned which you got interact with the mages, db and the main questline. Even though I like being able to join all the guilds it would be nice to not be forced to join others if I just want to join oh say the thieves guild for a run through. Don't even get me started on achievements. I swear the people who made them are sadists. (Not about the achievements themselves but the people who swear by them) At least when the CS comes out most of these will be easy fixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts