Softimage?

[HadToRegister]

3. Like Fallenjudge said, draw up some concepts of what you want first, but expanding on that, get some pictures off google of similar weapons/objects, helps you see what you're trying to achieve, also they will help when it comes to textures later.

 

You can edit your posts without having to make a new one ;)

[kingchris20]

Great info! I am downloading Blender 2.49b right now, and hopefully the student version of 3Ds max! About texturing, I have photoshop, I can probably look this up, but what about pointers on this. I recall FallenJudge saying that textures will make/break a model, so what should i expect with these. I am sure I can look at some tuts on how to map them, but how/what do i need to know about first making the textures in photoshop and putting them into a file format used to texture my models?

 

Thanks for all the info!

[HadToRegister]

Great info! I am downloading Blender 2.49b right now, and hopefully the student version of 3Ds max! About texturing, I have photoshop, I can probably look this up, but what about pointers on this. I recall FallenJudge saying that textures will make/break a model, so what should i expect with these. I am sure I can look at some tuts on how to map them, but how/what do i need to know about first making the textures in photoshop and putting them into a file format used to texture my models?

 

Thanks for all the info!

 

I checked the student site for autodesk and they do have 3dsmax for students as a free download, since there's nif importer/exporter already for max

(hopefully it works with the student version) you won't need blender.

 

There's a student discounted Edition of Photoshop for $199, which isn't bad, but you'll have to provide proof that you're a student.

[t0mm06]

Great info! I am downloading Blender 2.49b right now, and hopefully the student version of 3Ds max! About texturing, I have photoshop, I can probably look this up, but what about pointers on this. I recall FallenJudge saying that textures will make/break a model, so what should i expect with these. I am sure I can look at some tuts on how to map them, but how/what do i need to know about first making the textures in photoshop and putting them into a file format used to texture my models?

 

Thanks for all the info!

 

Im not great at texturing, but the best advice i was given was by one of my lecturers, basically keep it simple, start with basic block colours and see how they work on your model (to make sure the placement of everything is right on the UV map) then try and improve it from there. Texturing is one of those things you just need to keep checking how it looks on the model then going back and editing it how you think looks better.

But material texture sheets online can sometimes help, but sometimes they dont look good, its all trial and error.

one thing i would say you should defiantly do though is download some texture mods from here, and just look at how they're done, http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=3261 ave a look at this guys work, hes re done the entire iron armour from scratch, and it looks amazing.

[Matth85]

Doesn't AutoDesk also offer a free version of 3dsMax?

It might be limited to personal use IE can't make money from it, but I thought they offered free student versions of their software.

If you can prove you are a student, you can get an older version for free: yes. You can also buy newwer version for pretty cheap.

 

Blender to me, has one of the most non-intuitive and confusing interfaces I've ever used on a 3d modelling program

I tried blender 3 years ago, and I had major problems with the interface. It only had 1 window, and I had to tweak everything. I tried 3ds max where the default settings is/was a lot more friendly.

That said, I would always recommend 3ds max to people who can get it. Though I hear Blender is getting better.

 

Like Fallenjudge said, draw up some concepts of what you want first, but expanding on that, get some pictures off google of similar weapons/objects, helps you see what you're trying to achieve, also they will help when it comes to textures later.

You should always have concepts. It's one of the "rules" of 3d: ALWAYS use concepts. If you make something, you draw it yourself first or you grab pictures on google that is similar.

 

Pay attention to the topology, (how the polygons are laid out) this makes UV mapping and texturing a lot easier... its also something Bethesda should take more care with.

Not too important in the start. You should not care about your topology before you can model. But yes, topology needs to be clean for both sculpting and generally working with.

Bethesda doesn't need to spend time making clean topology, since they got half a million models to make per game.

 

try and keep swords under 700 polygons

Not really. Try and keep small non-important/detailed sword under 1k polygons, and under 1024x1024 texture. ore detailed and important weapons should get over 1k polygons. Besides, nobody will notice if ONE sword got 5k polygons. It's only a problem if you spawn 50 of the swords.

 

That said: Any modeller should choose which way they want to go. This isn't too important in start, but gets a lot more important later on. No artist can be masters at every area, so they choose. You got Hard Surface and Organic, basically. Though even here you can add Enviroment artist. This is important because:

- Organic modelling means you need to know anatomy and how the human body works. Trust me, it is very complicated to model a human body with both clean topology and the right anatomy.

- Hard Surface modeller is usually modelling game props, but they need to know how to high poly model good. This is usually the kind of modellers making guns and weapon for games.

- Enviroment artist needs to know how tileset works, how to work with the shapes of an enviroment and generally know how the world works.

 

I'd also want to add on what FallenJudge said: 3D is art, and a hobby. You will not be able to get quality models out soon. Heck, the artist making "real" art got upward to 10 years of experience in 3d. Most average Joes clock in 1-2 years. I personally cutted down almost all my gaming time for 3d, since I needed to trade something out for it. I suggest doing the same: No normal person can do 3d, hang out with friends, be social, go to work/study and game.

 

Lastly I want to add: Learn to texture! This is important. A developer of a game studio, which name escapes me right now, said this in a comment: "It's easier to teach somebody to sculpt, than it is teaching somebody to texture.". One should not focus too much on 3d and sculpting, that they forget texturing. A good texture is upward to 50% of the model. Of course, with sculpting and polypainting this can be lowered, but the point is there: It is important!

 

Cheers,

Matth

[kingchris20]

the autodesk site is giving me problems downloading 3ds max 8/ (I think they're undergoing maintenance), but i do have softimage and blender 2.49b loaded!

 

I think I would be most interested in Hard Surface modelling and Environment art for the purposes of the mod I am planning (a sort of marriage of the Elder Scrolls and the Stargate Universes), so there is going to be a wide variety of interactive props, weapons, clothing, armor, environments, etc that I will need to get good at creating. I am usually pretty quick with picking up new software, but we shall see with this endeavor!

 

 

 

**Just to put this all in perspective, I would need a few new NPCs based on Stargate characters, but outside of that, I need to make several new props, weapons, and clothing/armor, and new environments (both Skryim-esque, and somewhat technological). My friend and I have a good story mapped out, but this mod will only be as good as the models we can create/get. This isn't your normal Stargate mod where people play as stargate characters, it is more of a spin-off that we have created using the Lore of the Elder Scrolls and the stories in the Stargate Universe. We have spent several weeks on the backstory/story/quests/dialouge of how the Dragonborn rises to either help or hinder whoever he/she chooses in the expanse of the universe. To be totally honest, I am also seeking people to help with this project (if anyone is interested :wink: ), as I have come to realize that the models and environments needed will likely be a workload that wont be effieciently handled by a group of two (with one being me, who is just now beginning to delve into the topic of modding). Stargates, staff weapons, armors, and the like are in the large scope of this mod!

[t0mm06]

 

Pay attention to the topology, (how the polygons are laid out) this makes UV mapping and texturing a lot easier... its also something Bethesda should take more care with.

Not too important in the start. You should not care about your topology before you can model. But yes, topology needs to be clean for both sculpting and generally working with.

Bethesda doesn't need to spend time making clean topology, since they got half a million models to make per game.

 

try and keep swords under 700 polygons

Not really. Try and keep small non-important/detailed sword under 1k polygons, and under 1024x1024 texture. ore detailed and important weapons should get over 1k polygons. Besides, nobody will notice if ONE sword got 5k polygons. It's only a problem if you spawn 50 of the swords.

 

 

I'd say that topology is very important to start with, it teaches you practice, as it also helps keep poly count low, I did mention how its not so important if its a unique weapon, but keep in mind that yes one sword can be 5k if only the main character has it, but its still a waste if that sword could have been only 2.5 k without any detail reduction (i've seen this multiple times)

And regardless of how many models Bethesda has to make they should take more care with topology as anyone else, with better topology they can use the same amount of polys to make the detail better, or less polys to make the same detail level.

And my main point with the Polygon count was dont waste them, dont use more then you need.

[Matth85]

I'd say that topology is very important to start with, it teaches you practice, as it also helps keep poly count low

It's not worth bothering with topology if you can't model anything. First you learn to model, then you think about polycount and topology. No need to make the start harder than it allready is.

but keep in mind that yes one sword can be 5k if only the main character has it, but its still a waste if that sword could have been only 2.5 k without any detail reduction

I do agree, but note: Most new artist doesn't know how many polygons to have. It isn't easy to eyeball the polycount when you grind down the details before applying the normal. And the swords in Oblivion were 700 polygons, which is way too low for todays standard. Using Skyrim as a template isn't good either, since it was grinded down to fit the same console Oblivion uses. You can easily go 2k on a generic sword, and nobody will notice anything. That said, I do agree there is no reason to go overboard with the polycount if it doesn't do something.

 

And regardless of how many models Bethesda has to make they should take more care with topology as anyone else, with better topology they can use the same amount of polys to make the detail better, or less polys to make the same detail level.

They don't got the time, nor the money, to spend more time. Even if they did, I'd rather use it on beta testers.

 

And my main point with the Polygon count was dont waste them, dont use more then you need.

Which I agree on, however: If you are new you should not start to think about polycount and whatnot. You should get a maximum limit on polygons and just model and learn. I see no problems in a new artist making a generic sword with 5k polygons, even if I can make the same for 100. That person got tenfold less experience than me, and needs time to learn the ropes before starting to think optimizing. Forcing a person to think topology, polycount and triangulation before they can model something is simply mean.

 

That said, I do agree with you. Just these are tips for people who actually knows how to model. If you are new, it is not worth it. Starting 3d is hard enough, and you need some serious dedication to get over the "God, I suck..." stage. When you are over that valley, it's a lot simpler to start thinking optimizing. I also wanted to point out your polycount for a sword, since - well, unless your PC is ancient, you can go 1k+ on any sword. Though there is never a good reason to spend more polygos than required.

 

Hope I managed to make myself clearer now.

 

Cheers,

Matth

[t0mm06]

I'd say that topology is very important to start with, it teaches you practice, as it also helps keep poly count low

It's not worth bothering with topology if you can't model anything. First you learn to model, then you think about polycount and topology. No need to make the start harder than it allready is.

but keep in mind that yes one sword can be 5k if only the main character has it, but its still a waste if that sword could have been only 2.5 k without any detail reduction

I do agree, but note: Most new artist doesn't know how many polygons to have. It isn't easy to eyeball the polycount when you grind down the details before applying the normal. And the swords in Oblivion were 700 polygons, which is way too low for todays standard. Using Skyrim as a template isn't good either, since it was grinded down to fit the same console Oblivion uses. You can easily go 2k on a generic sword, and nobody will notice anything. That said, I do agree there is no reason to go overboard with the polycount if it doesn't do something.

 

And regardless of how many models Bethesda has to make they should take more care with topology as anyone else, with better topology they can use the same amount of polys to make the detail better, or less polys to make the same detail level.

They don't got the time, nor the money, to spend more time. Even if they did, I'd rather use it on beta testers.

 

And my main point with the Polygon count was dont waste them, dont use more then you need.

Which I agree on, however: If you are new you should not start to think about polycount and whatnot. You should get a maximum limit on polygons and just model and learn. I see no problems in a new artist making a generic sword with 5k polygons, even if I can make the same for 100. That person got tenfold less experience than me, and needs time to learn the ropes before starting to think optimizing. Forcing a person to think topology, polycount and triangulation before they can model something is simply mean.

 

That said, I do agree with you. Just these are tips for people who actually knows how to model. If you are new, it is not worth it. Starting 3d is hard enough, and you need some serious dedication to get over the "God, I suck..." stage. When you are over that valley, it's a lot simpler to start thinking optimizing. I also wanted to point out your polycount for a sword, since - well, unless your PC is ancient, you can go 1k+ on any sword. Though there is never a good reason to spend more polygos than required.

 

Hope I managed to make myself clearer now.

 

Cheers,

Matth

 

Fair enough, i guess we just have different way of learning, as i find that although it may be harder to get started, it makes you better and able to work faster in the long run to start with the harder principles, I suppose this is because i learnt maya (my main modelling software) on a project where we had to design a character using no more then 1000 polygons. This said my first character was 6000 polys, that i later optimised to 2900, but my point was keep topography in mind. And the 700 polys was taken from the steel sword in skyrim, which was a very well done sword, it had a nice design and didn't need any more polys, the only thing it needed was better textures :P.

 

And no i suppose our opinions just differ as, no, proper topography should not take more time then proper topography as it should just be the way you model.

[Matth85]

Fair enough, i guess we just have different way of learning, as i find that although it may be harder to get started, it makes you better and able to work faster in the long run to start with the harder principles, I suppose this is because i learnt maya (my main modelling software) on a project where we had to design a character using no more then 1000 polygons. This said my first character was 6000 polys, that i later optimised to 2900, but my point was keep topography in mind.

That is generally not how an average Joe will learn. Most likely you get used to the software, followed by doodling around. Personally my first "real" model was a Sword. Wether you got a few too many tris in an area, and a few too many polygons, means very little on the first few models. Getting the motivation to work in 3d is hard in the start, and you need real dedication. I know that I would never have housed in 2 years of 3d if I had to think about technical stuff as topology in the start.

 

3d starts as doodles, and then can be moved toward art. One could jump right to making stuff, but there is no way a person can open a 3d software, model something, UVW it and texture it. No, there is so much one must learn and understand before one can make a single model, let alone optimize it. It's like learning anything, really. If you feel "forced" by it, it becomes hard, it you just "doodle" and have fun with it - it gets better. That said, there are exeptions to the rule - like learning to drive.

 

 

no, proper topography should not take more time then proper topography as it should just be the way you model.

Which holds true when you can model. The problem comes when you can't model anything. There is no benefit in working on topology and triangulation. You could say it is good practice: But you got years to come to get used to optimizing.

 

So all I am saying: Unless you are super motivated and deidcated to become a 3d artist in the next 5 years, I suggest chilling out and learning one step at a time. There is no reason to take it all down at once.

 

But I think we are heading slighly off now, and we both got our points across. I guess it's up to each individual to choose how strict they want their learning to be.