All video-game Quests are obligatory & irrelevent...

[Oomo]

I disagree with EVERYTHING you said. Planescape Torment is one of many examples of games that have stories as deep as a good book.

 

As for Howard's comment regarding not being able to have a sandbox game with a good enough story to match, that's just him admitting "We aren't that good at writing storyline quests..." Plenty of others can.

[thesapien]

Perhaps my observations are more directed at an older audience.

 

I suppose if I was 15 and didn't have decades worth of reading books and watching movies I probably would be more affected by the kinds of stories one finds in video games. Obviously, a video game quest that appeals to you is going to be better than one that doesn't. But due to the massively repetitive nature of video games, any narrative content is eventually bound to get old. When this happens, it's the design of the game that makes one want to continue playing it. If you want to sit thought every line of dialogue on every quest after the 10th time you've done it, then that's great for you. But, once I already know exactly what's going to happen, it's just not that captivating anymore. And replaying video games is not in any way equivalent to rewatching movies or rereading books. A 30 second video game cut scene animation sandwiched between hours of button mashing is simply not enough to pull at my heart strings. Especially after you've already seen it 10 times.

 

It sounds to me like you're just picking Skyrim as an example. But this won't work here because none of us sees Skyrim as having any great story telling. It's just following a tired formula. It's what we complain about because many of us have experienced masters at story telling in other games. You're trying to speak for all games (past, present, and future) while demonstrating with your focus on Skyrim that you've yet to play many, else you just gravitate to all the poorly written ones for some odd reason?

Honestly, who can be that obsessed with any movie or book to think it has more replay value? I'm at least a couple of decades older than your presumed 15 and no book or film impresses me to that extent. Every book, movie, and game eventually gets old to me if I try to replay it that much. Just don't do that. Let it go. Move on. It's not like you're married to it.

[Astaril]

First play through is always nice, shiny and new when you have the element of not knowing what is going to happen in the story, but I tend to enjoy my second play through even more in some ways because I know what is going to happen, I can plan my role play better and work my characters story into the games story. I usually leave a few quests aside for my second playthrough so there is still something new to enjoy. I haven't done the main quest yet and will probably save this for my second character as now I have the jist of the game I can now create a story that will be compatible with the game mechanics and so on. I rarely play any game more than twise through because I take a VERY long time to play through just once! The only game I have played through more than twise is Shenmue ...its the classic lines and driving the forklift, it never gets old! :)

 

For me though, story is essential! I like the fighting to feel good, I like my character to feel powerful but this is quite low down on my list of importantance. I didn't get on very well with the play style of Dragon Age, but it is one of my favourite games because of the story and the characters, there were so many dialogue options too and this really made the game for me. While I like Skyrim and am happy with so many elements of it, the random events, the world, play style there are so many things I like, but I am feeling (so far) a little disapointed by the characters and writting in this game, it seems rushed. I just completed the mages quest line and was quite shocked at how implausable this was. It doesn't work at all and I had such high hopes as I loved the studenty feel at the start of the quest. This is just one example but I am finding little details are missing, such as lack of finishing statements or comments that you would expect npcs to give after certain quests. I think something has gone wrong with the writting in Skyrim. Someone said that Bethesda were probably put under pressure to finish this game for the release date and I agree, I think they have rushed this game and it shows up all over the place.

 

I think part of the problem Bethesda have is trying to cater to all gamers priorities, for some fast leveling and stats are all important, questing or fighting is key for others, some just like to explore the world, some view stories and roleplay as paramount. I think this is why a lot of people on this forum are disappointed with this game as PC gamers tend to be more Roleplay orientated (sorry for generalisation, I know there are exceptions!) and the game seems to have been nerfed in this area where as quests, fighting, exploration, stats etc have all recieved a huge boost.

Another example of this - In Fallout and Oblivion I used to decorate and personalise my houses, I really enjoyed this it took ages but the placement worked really well and it was a neat little feature. I can't do this anymore in Skyrim because the gravity settings are all off, and the placement just doesn't work. Its really annoying and just another thing that obviously hasn't been important enough to them to do properly, but then why would they care when it is only a minority of people who bother to do this? I think its the same with the stories if they get wind of the idea that people skip through the dialogue and don't care about the story anyway, then they will not prioritise this area either... this is a big shame. I do see the OPs point that you need a good amount of quests to keep the action going but I do not agree in that (for me) the story is the most important part of any game and is what makes a game GREAT! Skyrim so far as I have played it, is pretty good, worth my money and time but sadly not great.

[CalibanX]

First play through is always nice, shiny and new when you have the element of not knowing what is going to happen in the story, but I tend to enjoy my second play through even more in some ways because I know what is going to happen, I can plan my role play better and work my characters story into the games story. I usually leave a few quests aside for my second playthrough so there is still something new to enjoy. I haven't done the main quest yet and will probably save this for my second character as now I have the jist of the game I can now create a story that will be compatible with the game mechanics and so on. I rarely play any game more than twise through because I take a VERY long time to play through just once! The only game I have played through more than twise is Shenmue ...its the classic lines and driving the forklift, it never gets old! :)

 

For me though, story is essential! I like the fighting to feel good, I like my character to feel powerful but this is quite low down on my list of importantance. I didn't get on very well with the play style of Dragon Age, but it is one of my favourite games because of the story and the characters, there were so many dialogue options too and this really made the game for me. While I like Skyrim and am happy with so many elements of it, the random events, the world, play style there are so many things I like, but I am feeling (so far) a little disapointed by the characters and writting in this game, it seems rushed. I just completed the mages quest line and was quite shocked at how implausable this was. It doesn't work at all and I had such high hopes as I loved the studenty feel at the start of the quest. This is just one example but I am finding little details are missing, such as lack of finishing statements or comments that you would expect npcs to give after certain quests. I think something has gone wrong with the writting in Skyrim. Someone said that Bethesda were probably put under pressure to finish this game for the release date and I agree, I think they have rushed this game and it shows up all over the place.

 

I think part of the problem Bethesda have is trying to cater to all gamers priorities, for some fast leveling and stats are all important, questing or fighting is key for others, some just like to explore the world, some view stories and roleplay as paramount. I think this is why a lot of people on this forum are disappointed with this game as PC gamers tend to be more Roleplay orientated (sorry for generalisation, I know there are exceptions!) and the game seems to have been nerfed in this area where as quests, fighting, exploration, stats etc have all recieved a huge boost.

Another example of this - In Fallout and Oblivion I used to decorate and personalise my houses, I really enjoyed this it took ages but the placement worked really well and it was a neat little feature. I can't do this anymore in Skyrim because the gravity settings are all off, and the placement just doesn't work. Its really annoying and just another thing that obviously hasn't been important enough to them to do properly, but then why would they care when it is only a minority of people who bother to do this? I think its the same with the stories if they get wind of the idea that people skip through the dialogue and don't care about the story anyway, then they will not prioritise this area either... this is a big shame. I do see the OPs point that you need a good amount of quests to keep the action going but I do not agree in that (for me) the story is the most important part of any game and is what makes a game GREAT! Skyrim so far as I have played it, is pretty good, worth my money and time but sadly not great.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I think another aspect of this is weather or not a player likes a game so much that they "abuse" it. When I think back to the games that I abused (played and replayed SO many times) the first was Vampire:Bloodlines. I loved that game and thought it was very fun and very funny, and when the humor, dialogue and plot-lines became so familiar that I could start to do some of them by heart, I would skip through them. I kept on playing the game because I still enjoyed the world and the feel and overall design of the game. Oblivion was the same way for me. After the quests become old, the world was still interesting and fun to be in so I kept on playing. Now with Dragon Age, I thought the story was actually the best I'd encountered in a video game in terms of how the writing and voice acting just came together so well. Much, much better than anything in Oblivion or Fallout. Yet, I didn't feel compelled to replay that game so much. You got to know your followers around the campfire, but the world was just a few fast travel locations that didn't have any exploring to it. That's why I think fans replay the open-world games more than the linear-story driven ones. The open-world games just give you so much more to do once the quests loose their freshness.

 

I too, was very dispirited that I couldn't lavishly decorate my homes in Skyrim! That was something I loved to do in Oblivion. But, I'm sure a mod or patch will address it & I'll get to be a home decorator again. :)

Edited January 7, 2012 by CalibanX

[Rennn]

Perhaps my observations are more directed at an older audience.

 

I suppose if I was 15 and didn't have decades worth of reading books and watching movies I probably would be more affected by the kinds of stories one finds in video games. Obviously, a video game quest that appeals to you is going to be better than one that doesn't. But due to the massively repetitive nature of video games, any narrative content is eventually bound to get old. When this happens, it's the design of the game that makes one want to continue playing it. If you want to sit thought every line of dialogue on every quest after the 10th time you've done it, then that's great for you. But, once I already know exactly what's going to happen, it's just not that captivating anymore. And replaying video games is not in any way equivalent to rewatching movies or rereading books. A 30 second video game cut scene animation sandwiched between hours of button mashing is simply not enough to pull at my heart strings. Especially after you've already seen it 10 times.

 

Hmmm... But I finish a 500 page book in 2 hours, a movie in 1.5 hours, and a game takes at least 10 hours on the short end. (I'm aware that certain games, like MW3, only last 4 hours, but I don't care for those anyway for the story, so it's not really relevant) It's easier to keep a 2 hour story fresh than it is to keep a 10-20 hour story fresh. I'm not certain the only factor here is sheer quality per minute. Though it does seem we have common ground here; a 30 second cut scene would never have an emotional impact on me. I prefer when the gameplay itself tells a story that changes depending on how it's played. Sadly, only Mass Effect 2 has managed to really beat books in terms of story for me. I agree though; Dragon Age has a great story... the first time you experience it. It would almost tarnish my memories of it to play it again and see that nothing has changed. Movies never really affect me at all though, so I'm going to reiterate that games and books are both better story telling mediums than movies in my opinion. In general, I would agree that books are the best story telling medium.

 

That doesn't exactly prove that all video game quests are obligatory and irrelevant though. More like 'less impactful than a good book'.

Games about books become more story-driven as well. Think of Call of Cthulhu for the original Xbox, and how it relates to the Cthulhu Mythos. By all accounts the game was fairly hardcore and annoying at times, but the weight of the Mythos behind it (and well represented in the game), gave it a lot more power as a 'fun' game.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Rennn

[AtlasS]

I TL;DR this thread, however I'd just like to interject my opinion into the OP.

 

I agree totally with everything you said, the only way you'll get an interactive game with unlimited dialogue possibilities and unlimited quest options is with tabletop RPG's such as Dungeons and dragons

[Rennn]

I TL;DR this thread, however I'd just like to interject my opinion into the OP.

 

I agree totally with everything you said, the only way you'll get an interactive game with unlimited dialogue possibilities and unlimited quest options is with tabletop RPG's such as Dungeons and dragons

 

I'm not sure that anything that's not imagination based could have that many possibilities. The interesting merger is when classic DnD is taken online into easy to create isometric dungeons. I believe there's a program available for that which claims to be as versatile as pen and paper; a bold claim, considering just how limitless that would have to be. This path also blurs the line between one form of entertainment and another. Yay! Let's get into sociology!

[AtlasS]

I TL;DR this thread, however I'd just like to interject my opinion into the OP.

 

I agree totally with everything you said, the only way you'll get an interactive game with unlimited dialogue possibilities and unlimited quest options is with tabletop RPG's such as Dungeons and dragons

 

I'm not sure that anything that's not imagination based could have that many possibilities. The interesting merger is when classic DnD is taken online into easy to create isometric dungeons. I believe there's a program available for that which claims to be as versatile as pen and paper; a bold claim, considering just how limitless that would have to be. This path also blurs the line between one form of entertainment and another. Yay! Let's get into sociology!

DDO:Forgotten realms

I've played it, and that is far too kind :P more rediditive dialogue than TES, and less imaginative quests

[CalibanX]

I think the best vehicle for story telling in video games might be the extent & depth of lore that is in the game. When you have all of this lore your character can read about in the game that is also reflected in the design of the world (landscape, architecture, history, religion, ecology etc) it can really make a game come alive in a way that is different from books & movies. While there are lots of limits placed upon studios in terms of what kind of stories & dialogue they can implement in a game, the lore remains something that is much more open and easy to build a world around. The other cool thing about lore is that it blends really well with the open world concept because it doesn't depend upon a forced, linear story to hold it in place but can rather be scattered about the world where ever you happen to find it.

[Astaril]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I think another aspect of this is weather or not a player likes a game so much that they "abuse" it. When I think back to the games that I abused (played and replayed SO many times) the first was Vampire:Bloodlines. I loved that game and thought it was very fun and very funny, and when the humor, dialogue and plot-lines became so familiar that I could start to do some of them by heart, I would skip through them. I kept on playing the game because I still enjoyed the world and the feel and overall design of the game. Oblivion was the same way for me. After the quests become old, the world was still interesting and fun to be in so I kept on playing. Now with Dragon Age, I thought the story was actually the best I'd encountered in a video game in terms of how the writing and voice acting just came together so well. Much, much better than anything in Oblivion or Fallout. Yet, I didn't feel compelled to replay that game so much. You got to know your followers around the campfire, but the world was just a few fast travel locations that didn't have any exploring to it. That's why I think fans replay the open-world games more than the linear-story driven ones. The open-world games just give you so much more to do once the quests loose their freshness.

 

I too, was very dispirited that I couldn't lavishly decorate my homes in Skyrim! That was something I loved to do in Oblivion. But, I'm sure a mod or patch will address it & I'll get to be a home decorator again. :)

Thinking about it, you make a good point here. I haven't replayed Dragon Age all the way through either, I played through once and made a couple of different characters to see the starting areas but haven't visited it again, yet I would call it one of my favourite games. I constantly revisited Oblivion because I knew there were more things still to experience, and I just liked being in the world wondering around RPing my character, I made it a mission to sneak into every house in the imperial city to see what skeletons they had in there...basement. This took ages of playtime yet was not quest or story driven, it was very enjoyable none the less. Now I have re-read your posts I think I see what point you are trying to make. A good story will make a game great for the first and (for some) second, third play through but after you know the story like the back of your hand you need something else to do, that is where the open world, sneaking, exploring etc comes into its importance and the story becomes less so, that is why people get so many game hours out of Bethesda as oppose to other story driven games.

 

I can't agree that the story is irrelevant though as I think the lack of good writting and characters in Skyrim has put the game on my B list, because even though this is my first play through I find myself dissapointed with some aspects and am not as interested and involved as I was with Oblivion and Fallout, The story has not induced me to care about the game world or any of the characters in it (I haven't done the main quest yet and a few others so this could be unfair). What they have got spot on in Skyrim are the random events, the amazing game world, the combat system (this is personal taste, but I like it) the huge amount of quests etc... the stuff that will keep us going for many hours. That is...as long as I don't lose interest in the game and I am worried that I lack the enthusiasm for Skyrim that I had for other games so am not sure it can keep me coming back for more.

This is one area where good game writting becomes essential, they have to be able to evoke emotions and grab players attention enough so that they form a bond with the game and all them positive feelings that keep them coming back to play it. I think a GREAT game needs both good story, characters and script as much as the engaging game world, combat etc.. both are equally important and work together.

 

p.s. I REALLY hope there will be a mod to fix the home decorating, I loved doing this, my houses looked so cool. Lets hope! :)