Is anyone working on a new TC?

[morsepone7]

Hi,

 

My last total conversion (1st attempt) was Elysium TC. It was about the Greek/Egyptian afterlife, and used mythology to explore the story/plot. I noticed in the CS that I can increase land size by

unchecking "small world." Most TCs lay unfinished and not uploaded. I was wondering if anyone else has completed theirs, and if any such projects or project ideas are desired.

 

M7

Horus Mike,

:)

[Lingwei]

Most TCs lay unfinished and not uploaded.

 

There is usually a reason for that.

 

Edit - oh and these types of posts aren't meant to go here. This forum is for feedback about the website e.g if you have a problem with a feature of the site, can't upload your file correctly etc.

[Povuholo]

That's right, so I'm moving this to Modifications. :)

[ninja_lord666]

Most TCs lay unfinished and not uploaded.

There is usually a reason for that.

Yeah, a prime example of this is Project Serpent. It was manned by a team of skilled modders, and it was pretty much universally believed that it would succeed. That TC was shut down, sadly. Since then, non-hermit modders have been rather unwilling to try to make a TC.

[Vagrant0]

Hi,

 

My last total conversion (1st attempt) was Elysium TC. It was about the Greek/Egyptian afterlife, and used mythology to explore the story/plot. I noticed in the CS that I can increase land size by

unchecking "small world." Most TCs lay unfinished and not uploaded. I was wondering if anyone else has completed theirs, and if any such projects or project ideas are desired.

 

M7

Horus Mike,

:)

Most TCs fail, like most mod groups fail.

 

While Project serpent was an exception, most people who start a TC don't have much of a grasp of the game, the CS, or even how to mod. This is typically the first reason why projects fail. Those who are involved with the mod either plan elements which do not work in game, or do not know how to make those things that are possible work.

 

The second reason is what I call the "Lazy Bum" situation. This involves either idle members of a community who are interested in the project, but not interested enough to offer help, or members who have joined a team, but do next to nothing (either due to poor planning, or just unwillingness to take on tasks without being forced). If a mod team, making a large mod, doesn't have enough people who are able to get work done, the project can take much longer than expected, and people can lose interest. Or when you do assign them some work, they up and leave without notice.

 

The tird reason is what I call the "absent member" situation. In group mods it isn't uncommon for work to be divided between multiple people, and for one person's work to be necessary for anyone else to continue. A delay in that person being able to do that work can cause serious problems with the mod because everyone is pretty much sitting around twiddling their thumbs. If that person just never returns, the mod group then has to find someone else who can do the job, which in the case of specialized things (like world design, scripting, meshes/textures) can be a problem. The issue is not so much the loss of a member, but the amount of time it takes and the chance that group members will lose interest while they wait.

 

The fourth reason is what I call the "hardship clause". Durring the course of a large project problems will occur, everything from members getting grounded, their hard drives blowing up, getting deported, relatives dying, or school. Since few people can commit totally to a mod, you cannot expect people to work when those things do occur. But it can cast a bit of a shadow over a mod project, and if the team member is doing something critical, can cause delays and loss of interest.

 

The fifth reason is a rare one I call "The Man". Only a few mod teams have had to deal with "The Man", but it can cause an instant end to any project which happens to have too much of a basis on liscensed content outside of the TES universe. Unlike other causes, this one is sudden, and does not involve a loss of interest.

 

That said, TC's differ from large mods in that they often require alot more work just defining things to where the game is even playable. Although there are some TC starter mods that can be used as a base, it still requires ALOT of understanding of the game and the CS to be able to pull off anything workable. As far as I know, there hasn't been one successful TC made yet. And even as far as large projects go, there aren't very many that have gotten very far, and those that did had a much larger following durring the initial constructiion phase than others, which allowed them to overcome the above obstacles.

[wizardmirth]

If enough people really want one then they should start a fund of some sort to pay a group of skilled modders. That's the only way a TC's every going to get made and even then there would have to be some sort of stipulation requiring the TC to be completed for full payment. It would also probably help to be able to use whatever sources are available from abandonded projects so that the completion time can be reduced. I'm not sure if getting paid to create a TC for TES would cause any legal complications though. If it does, well it was a nice idea anyway.

[Vagrant0]

If enough people really want one then they should start a fund of some sort to pay a group of skilled modders. That's the only way a TC's every going to get made and even then there would have to be some sort of stipulation requiring the TC to be completed for full payment. It would also probably help to be able to use whatever sources are available from abandonded projects so that the completion time can be reduced. I'm not sure if getting paid to create a TC for TES would cause any legal complications though. If it does, well it was a nice idea anyway.

Getting paid isn't really a factor, while it might help initially, what it really comes down to is how the project is structured, and how many skilled modders can be found to work on it and complete things before the problems I mentioned take place. And given the ammount of time, and the number of modders required to make something like this work, it would probably need to be a sizable fund to "make" people interested. Even $1,000 divided between 20 people isn't very much, and given the amount of time needed, would probably equate to a pay rate lower than most sweatshop workers. Besides the point, people don't mod for money (Peregrine maybe), they mod because they like modding. The biggest problem any TC, or large mod faces is really convincing others that the mod is viable. There have been so many large mods that went completely nowhere, so many are a bit skeptical when it comes to thinking about joining a group.

[worm82075]

All those factors aside some people start a total conversion and stick with it though you don't usually here about them as they are too busy working on their mod to talk about it. Stumbled across the most impressive one I have ever seen the other day while I was looking for some retro games. This is a Morrowind TC, but check it out and you be the judge:

 

The Titans Of Ether - Ultima IX Redemption - http://cfkasper.de/ultima/index.php

 

All of the factors vagrant mentioned do come into play though as these guys have been at it for years and are only 75% done. Still pretty impressive though and the sentence found on the first page sums it all up;

 

"Anyway, here it is, our big (never promised) update!"

 

The point is, the ones that have the greatest production don't talk about it they just do it.

 

MEMod is still in production as well though you will never see it as it has been red lighted and can never be released publicly.

[wizardmirth]

People obviously don't finish TC's out of love either, Vagrant. Of course money would help motivate people beyond the straightforward "I mod for me or the community" scenario. Also, Worm, obviously they talk about it if you've heard about it, no? Unless it's a personal group project, of course they're going to want to announce it so that all their hard work can get recognized. Getting back to my point, this coupled with the money factor would probably give it more of a chance to succeed. And that aspect of it would have to be organized by webmaster types who can help generate financial interest and handle all the marketing and progress updates. It might upset some people's personal sense of artistry, but I was thinking if a complete game is worth 50 USD then a TC should be worth, what, 20-30 per downloader? This with an added donation feature to help give it a tender little nudge every now and then from eagerly awaiting users.

 

I'm just saying and it's all just talk here. People keep asking and no one's doing. Maybe it's because the right people aren't asking, or if they are then there's not enough of them. Just remember that money is not the root of all evil. To quote Mark Twain, the absence of money is the root of all evil, and possibly, the root of all failed TC's by otherwise able modders who need some kind of an extra push.

 

Even less likely but more inspiring than money alone: A contest to get hired by Bethsoft or some other studio.

[SickleYield]

Bethsoft doesn't particularly like modders, wizardmirth. ;D We're a relatively small group that generates a lot of complaints and, in at least one case, legal trouble, so I can't say I really blame them.

 

Then there's the fact that there are games and engines that are very mod-friendly and even friendlier to TCs (and even whole new games). Oblivion just isn't one of them. Creating a whole new world for it is going to be much harder than doing so for some other engines that are out there.

 

Like Vagrant, I also think personal dynamics has a lot to do with it. I've been on some projects that weren't finished, as in the project leader quit and left me hanging with extremely late or no notice after I'd put in hours of work. Add that to the fact that I really hate having to resubmit 15 drafts of something before I can move on, and it's not likely I'm going to join a big project ever again. I'm slightly involved in a larger project now, but I'm going to be fairly cagey about the extent of that by this point.

 

And I definitely wouldn't join a TC for money. I've faced up to the fact that the main reason I could never work in gaming (although I love, love LOVE modeling and texturing, spend hours a day at it when I can) is that the first time my boss told me to design what I keep hearing people call a "barbarian" armor, I would strangle him. Gaming is not a particularly woman-friendly industry. Modding mostly isn't, either. Ask AlienSlof.