False "save corruption" during gameplay

[waylander47]

I don't know what really causes it.

 

But my current theory is the form 43, plus a good mix of improper conversions (not esmifying masters and then converting it, which leads to a bunch of little errors). You add up enough of these and it clogs up the engine like bad fuel in a gas tank. Sure the car can run, but poorly and you need to restart it a lot.

 

This would account for the vastly different load orders we have and it causing bugs. And it would account for the random nature for each person. Also accounts for why that ini fix posted earlier helped some, and not others. It even accounts for us not having this error in Oldrim; it's not like we were importing Morrowwind mods into Skyrim.

 

Occam's razor.

[walshy71]

I don't know what really causes it.

 

But my current theory is the form 43, plus a good mix of improper conversions (not esmifying masters and then converting it, which leads to a bunch of little errors). You add up enough of these and it clogs up the engine like bad fuel in a gas tank. Sure the car can run, but poorly and you need to restart it a lot.

 

This would account for the vastly different load orders we have and it causing bugs. And it would account for the random nature for each person. Also accounts for why that ini fix posted earlier helped some, and not others. It even accounts for us not having this error in Oldrim; it's not like we were importing Morrowwind mods into Skyrim.

 

Occam's razor.

 

Also did a bit of hoking around on Reddit and the Nexus forums here and found this little nugget of information about the GameBryo/Creation Engine, seems that back in the day of Oblivion the game would continue to read and try load non activated ESM's/ESP's known as the "Directory Thrashing Bug" so if you have Wrye Bash it seems that Ghosting those ESM's or ESP's would help to alleviate this problem ...

 

Link to Reddit ; - https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/70fbg4/how_i_fixed_my_skyrim_se_false_save_corruption_bug/

 

 

Link to Nexus page ; - http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/941296-bugz-oblivionexe-filedirectory-thrashing/

[Arthmoor]

The thrashing issue could only be a factor if that still exists as a bug, but nobody has been able to conclusively prove that this is the case. You'll note my reply on the Reddit thread. The relationship is only possible if the old thrashing bug got reintroduced into SSE.

[walshy71]

The thrashing issue could only be a factor if that still exists as a bug, but nobody has been able to conclusively prove that this is the case. You'll note my reply on the Reddit thread. The relationship is only possible if the old thrashing bug got reintroduced into SSE.

 

Which is why I brought it up here Artmoor, we're poking in the dark here, we need help ... I am diligent I try to follow in SSE the STEP protocol but I'm being caught out and have this issue, the only other thing I can think of is that SSE nexus needs purged of all mods from before the Special Edition Creation Kit was released to try to rectify this issue? if we can rule out proper re-saving of the ESM-ESP that's the only other option for me that I can think of. The reason I say this is because we had mods re-uploaded to the Nexus hours after the release of the Special Edition but ... well had form 44 id's attached? The re-saving to the new form makes it compatible but there are things that have to be done as well, if what I'm reading is correct? Nif optimization and so forth are taken as well ... But also some of those mods in the early stages I'm sure had just form ids changed in TES5edit to make it work ...

Edited November 1, 2017 by walshy71

[walshy71]

It isn't duplication issues is it? Once re-saved going back into the Creation Kit to make sure that duplicates haven't happened? i say this I converted the Glorious Dawnguard mod myself on an old SSE load order and I've down loaded this

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/9317/?

 

And the exact same issue of a floating stable in the Whiterun plains/steppes/tundra has happened. I would delete with the in the game and each time I came back to the exact same place, further on the save, there it was floating in the exact same place. Arthmoor try the the to see what I mean ...

[Arthmoor]

You can't manually edit form versions in xEdit and never could. So that's not really a valid concern that someone did that with xEdit. Now, a hex editor, people have been known to do that but IMO at that point it takes less time to just load it into the CK and resave it. I honestly don't even know why mod authors won't do it. It's such a simple step with a guaranteed outcome. Even if they don't fix river flow data or adjust things for added plant life, at least they won't be distributing corrupted junk.

 

Objects floating in the sky above the giant camp west of Whiterun are an indicator of mods that were not cleaned prior to being released and that's an issue that can happen on LE as well as SSE. It's much more likely that an unclean mod will cause CTDs in those cases, but apparently they don't always and you end up with floaters in the sky instead.

[walshy71]

You can't manually edit form versions in xEdit and never could. So that's not really a valid concern that someone did that with xEdit. Now, a hex editor, people have been known to do that but IMO at that point it takes less time to just load it into the CK and resave it. I honestly don't even know why mod authors won't do it. It's such a simple step with a guaranteed outcome. Even if they don't fix river flow data or adjust things for added plant life, at least they won't be distributing corrupted junk.

 

Objects floating in the sky above the giant camp west of Whiterun are an indicator of mods that were not cleaned prior to being released and that's an issue that can happen on LE as well as SSE. It's much more likely that an unclean mod will cause CTDs in those cases, but apparently they don't always and you end up with floaters in the sky instead.

 

Yep just found that out and blew my own theory out of the water as well!

 

Edit that's the level we're working on, this IS A HUGE thread it's bloody daunting to read through but we need help.

Edited November 1, 2017 by walshy71

[freestonew]

I think that I will now throw out some other ideas as to why the save game corruptions.

 

just theories. you all may think about them, accept them, put them down...what ever.

 

in the readme for the baldur,s gate mod for neverwinter 2, it is said that one must never save over a save, do not overwrite a save, save only on a new slot each time. there have been reports of save file corruption on overwrites.

---maybe some of the old data gets "transferred" onto the new save!

 

I think the nexus overhaul, or the legacy of the dragonborn makers say that when you load up the game for the very first time, in the alternate start jail cell, when the game loads, do NOT do anything, go make a cup of coffee, wait at least five minutes so that all of the scripts can properly load, for the first time. this first game start problem might not show up with the normal cart start as the game is still loading while the cart is moving.

---probably not for each save load after that; brings me to wonder that maybe some times, in a heavy modded game, especially, that if you begin to play immediately, some scripts might become ruined as they try to load.

 

same with reloading a save, in the game. you die, a reload, then you want to go back to play Right Now. better to wait. how long to wait? I do not know, 10 seconds, 20 seconds? or longer?

 

might also help to try to save only in indoor cells. less data to save.

might be dangerous, at least, to save if there is motion going on in the game.

 

transitions! going through doors, entering a new area, the load screen comes up. again, do not rush to begin to play.

 

in the same vein, when you save and then quit the game, save first then wait a few seconds longer, then quit.

 

I wonder if the above might show up on older machines with slower processors more often; takes the processor a bit longer to process the saving and loading.

 

 

conjecture only. ideas to toss out to you all.

 

[edit]

I suppose someone could try an experiment. start a new game with alternate start, then do not wait long after loading there in the jail. then abuse the save system, save over previous save, save, quickly reload, save, save reload without any waiting, over and over and over again. go through doors and transitions then immediately play. save then quit then restart immediately. see what happens to your save after a while of play!

 

if the above reasons cause problems, might only take just one cut-off save to throw bad data onto the save, bad data that does not show up immediately but this error is then passed down through more saves and then trips up other mis-saving of other files until BAM, a poisoned save!

 

freestone

Edited November 1, 2017 by freestonew

[walshy71]

I think that I will now throw out some other ideas as to why the save game corruptions.

 

just theories. you all may think about them, accept them, put them down...what ever.

 

in the readme for the baldur,s gate mod for neverwinter 2, it is said that one must never save over a save, do not overwrite a save, save only on a new slot each time. there have been reports of save file corruption on overwrites.

---maybe some of the old data gets "transferred" onto the new save!

 

I think the nexus overhaul, or the legacy of the dragonborn makers say that when you load up the game for the very first time, in the alternate start jail cell, when the game loads, do NOT do anything, go make a cup of coffee, wait at least five minutes so that all of the scripts can properly load, for the first time. this first game start problem might not show up with the normal cart start as the game is still loading while the cart is moving.

---probably not for each save load after that; brings me to wonder that maybe some times, in a heavy modded game, especially, that if you begin to play immediately, some scripts might become ruined as they try to load.

 

same with reloading a save, in the game. you die, a reload, then you want to go back to play Right Now. better to wait. how long to wait? I do not know, 10 seconds, 20 seconds? or longer?

 

might also help to try to save only in indoor cells. less data to save.

might be dangerous, at least, to save if there is motion going on in the game.

 

transitions! going through doors, entering a new area, the load screen comes up. again, do not rush to begin to play.

 

in the same vein, when you save and then quit the game, save first then wait a few seconds longer, then quit.

 

I wonder if the above might show up on older machines with slower processors more often; takes the processor a bit longer to process the saving and loading.

 

 

conjecture only. ideas to toss out to you all.

 

if the above reasons cause problems, might only take just one cut-off save to throw bad data onto the save, bad data that does not show up immediately but this error is then passed down through more saves and then trips up other mis-saving of other files until BAM, a poisoned save!

 

Personally for me, don't know about the rest of users in the thread, the first thing I do after I re-install for what ever reason, Skyrim is to completely disable the Auto-save feature. Namely the save on wait, menu and after gameplay time. So I only ever save on a full hard save in a new slot. Been doing that since the first time I loaded Oldrim ...

Edited November 1, 2017 by walshy71

[waylander47]

Well. If you use a basic scientific method: observe, hypothizse, test. I can disprove the thrashing bug. I'm not getting the bug, and I am over 270 esps currently if you take into account my disabled esps. And my last build when I was getting it every 15min or less, I had 235 counting disabled. That's two different builds that disprove it.

 

Best guess: It's multifactoral. I think the new engine can defiantly handle a lot more bumps and errors before crashing. But I do feel that the old form plays a roll. 1-2 probably ok depending on the mod. Multiple, and a few errors here or there from bad conversions or sloppy edits....too many straws on the camel.

 

Obviously we all harp on "good modding practices". I think just adds another layer: Check your mods form number and check it for errors in SSEdit before you add it to your game or merge it. And if you convert it, ESMify it's masters. That's the route I took. And now I have an awesome running game with more mods than before. No bug. Granted took more time to build....but no having to restart all the time makes it worth it.

 

 

Side note: I added AFT back to the game. 1 hour of solid testing. No bugs. So it is good to go.

 

Also of note: I am beta testing the 2.1 version of MO2. I don't think it has anything to do with it. But it is a variable so I will state it. This weekend when I get home, I will post my load order so you guys can look at it. It will at least give everyone a list of mods known not to cause the bug.

 

Next up is Campfire and Frostfall. Then I will put in AO2, and Sounds of Skyrim once AO2 gets updated.