False "save corruption" during gameplay

[Ramagast]

So, regarding the freezing on save - I found that in SSE it can happen it some places where several mods are changing the same worldspace. You go into the location of conflict, there are no CTD's, but the game is actually broken - it won't load the next location and it will freeze if you are trying to save. Getting rid of some location mods including the "Forgotten Dungeons" helped me.

New game can't start with too much mods, that's true. But in my experience, if your can't start your game with these mods, it's probably not a good idea to enable them later as well. Also for me the "Carantyr Tower" always blocks the start of the new game for some reason - it's quest just has some problems starting with all other things.

[freestonew]

I myself am getting my load order ready to play. I have forgotten dungeons. I note they seem to have increased the dungeon number to like forty. Problem is, with so many amazing dungeon locations there will be a conflict somewhere. Where? Depends upon what city overhauls and other locations one has. You might be the only one crashing, as you might have a house mod or some obscure quest mod that places something in the wrong area.

I will have to really check the tesedit to see if there are conflicts and then decide what has to go.

 

I can see though that the caranthi tower might be a problem. The exp iteself seems to be 450 megs!

And lots of scripts too.

 

I hope I can keep forgotten dungeons.

 

Freestone

[freemanisdead]

Well,

 

I have a clean (with cleaned ESMs) vanilla profile within MO and it does work just fine. I tried starting a new game with large mods disabled and it didn't worked.

The weird things is the "huge" save (66000 strings, 12mo at level 5...) works and the new game with same mods and even with less didn't... I can't find the culprit and that make me really sad :(

 

Hope someone would find a workaround someday... I guess I may have to go back to FO4, with the last MO it should be easier !

[BlueGunk]

I think I might have found the source of my game save freeze. Only a fool would use 32bit DLLs in a 64bit game.

 

Hey - guess what - that's me! D'Oh! Start again.... :facepalm:

 

Update: I removed the DLLs, started afresh with a much leaner game. 48,000 strings, half the amount of scripts.....

Save freeze within the first 20 saves.

 

What??!!!!!

 

These are all mods I've played for years, in Oldrim and SE. I genuinely give up. :sad:

(I'm beginning to wonder if my SSE drive might be an issue...)

[cosmicdan808]

Good to see I'm not the only one with this issue.

 

EDIT: I read the last few pages and I see that it's not occurring as often these days and just something that I need to deal with. If it only happens every few hours or something then I suppose that's not the end of the world.

 

Original message below.

 

-------------

 

I did a "Lexy's LOTD SE" mod install, as detailed extensively on STEP here. I also added a few more of my own mods:

 

[These are inserted at logical places in load order; at the end of existing section in the guide]

Quest Conflict Fixes

Fast Travel Speed Fix

SkyHUD

Beyond Reach

Maids II Deception

 

[These whacked onto the very end]

SaveHotkey SSE - ArchMod for SKSE

Third Person Movement Delay Fix

SkyComplete - Legendary Edition 1.45

SkyComplete - Legendary Edition 1.45

SkyComplete - 3DNPC 1.00

SkyComplete - Falskaar 1.00

Equipment HUD

 

I only noticed the problem after about 5 hours of play time, after I went into the "Fight Cave" which is part of Helgen Reborn (I haven't even started Helgen Reborn, though - I didn't remember what mod it was from at the time).

 

Forgive me for not wanting to crawl through 120 pages, but did you guys ever find a likely cause for this? I have absolutely no freezing or stability issues whatsoever, this is the first serious issue I found.

Edited March 28, 2018 by dconnolly

[BlueGunk]

PC Headtracking mod!

 

I discover this is very likely to be my source of freezing saves. The bug report on the mod is interesting.

Apparently, the "speaker detection" scripts sometimes fail to save in the SKSE64 part of the Skyrim SE save tables.

This gives the characteristic freeze as the SKSE64 part tries to process the scripts. Apparently this is a SKSE64 issue, not the mod.

So in quiet moments (like in dungeons) you'll not get a freeze. But in a busy place like Whiterun, or with voiced followers, a freeze is more likely.

Hence the sporadic and unpredictable nature of it.

 

Fortunately the speaker detection element in the mod can easily be switched off in the MCM. I've done this and (so far) no more freezes!

Tooneyman has reported this to the SKSE team so we do not need to do anything but watch for an update.

 

I don't know if this (above) would also create the "corrupt save" flag - but it might be worth checking.

 

I'll update if I hear more.

 

UPDATE - so far, so good. No save freezing yet...

 

UPDATE - 375 game saves later I have not had one freeze since switching off the speaker detection in the PC Headtracking mod.

[lmhzy26]

i have the same issue, did someone find out its solusion? i can hardly read through all 120 pages

[lmhzy26]

Yes ... i know ... whatever Bethesda planed to do with TES V, from the technical / engine pov ... stopped with releasing the Remastered Edition. I hope that for the next titles in the series ... TESVI, VII ... they will design their load engine and memory system to be a lot friendlier to MODS. And especially if they get a lot of ... input from fans ... in this regard. They did so in the past ... they created the survival mode for SSE ... they corrected in TES V ... many mistakes they made with TES IV,... I know that this can be done ... but from the factory design. MODS are a big part of this franchise ... it is what make some average-good games ... actually great. I always believe that the end product ... is not actually released by Bethesda (that's only the first / basic release) ... but by the modding community. And the game ... is being judge or should be judged after ... the final release.

 

Our 'little bug' ... doesn't have a classical ... escape goat, unfortunately ... that would had been so much ... better! The mods, enbs, are as much to blame as the game itself ... they all add resources, or change resources to demand more memory ... more so as you unlock the Tamriel Map, discover new locations and interact with the world (especially exterior world) ... everything is loaded and retained in the memory ... even changing the position (x, y, z axis and angles) of a lantern. And i think it is reseted at 30 days. The game retain several cells in memory (the City Cell are also very demanding) ... if you load a cell like this and then you go in a different cell ... then came back ... the cell is loaded instantly ... because it is retained in the load memory ... they sacrificed the load memory ... to shorten the load time between cells (more to SSE than Oldrim i noticed) ... and with things like this it's always a trade off. Crafting menus and Merchant menus are pure 'memory death' ... especially with the way SkyUI designed his later version 5+ ... to get as much stuff on your screen as possible ... provided you have IA and other crafting recipes loaded ... with their ground meshes ... ALL loaded upon opening the crafting menu, some high and very high-res ... i don't have the lag from Oldrim ... which is good, but this is the trade-off ... the fact that you can see the image of every item in player and crafting inventory to high res, even enlarge it ... is very memory heavy ... and most ppl would have used 2k - 4K resolution for mot of thise items by now. It is a nice feature ... but i would prefer the Morrowind's inventory for this ... which meant ... small icons for every item ... because i can see them full size ... when i wear or on the ground. Also the Book of UUNP came with a much better method ... of using crafting books instead, inspired from Lorecraft.

 

As for what mods are most to blame for this ... logically the mods that add the most resources to the worldspace of Tamriel ... Interesting NPCs (which is actually the best Quest / NPC mod that i played (and i played a lot) ... no way i'm giving this up in any playthrough), but came with hundreds of npc and thousands of edits to Worldpace of Tamriel, 6.907 Scripts (!) so thousands of quest-conditions and strings ... then SMIM and you choice for High resolution Graphic Overall, Wet and Cold and Footprins for the number of decals, Frostfall of course, who is using Open Cities (Bethesda ... intentionally put the cities in their own worldspace ... to avoid this specific issue ... add 5-6 major cities to the Tamriel worldspace ... and you are asking for memory trouble ... compatibility issues aside). And i'm sure i forgot a lot of other culprits ... very heavy on adding new resources to the same Worldspace ... these resources are competing for the same finite memory along with the vanilla game resources. the Characters' AI are very heavy as well.

 

I don't see how SKSE64 will help ... they just expand the scripting capability and functionality of mods ... which means that even more complex (so demanding) scripts are able to run ... if so ... they most likely will expedite the 'memory bug' ... not delay it. I'm also a little subjective, here ... i'm not using it for SSE ... not wanting to make the trade-off to stability ... maybe in the future ... for my next playthrough and a stable version ... if that happens.

 

I avoid mods ... that make ... inconsequential changes to game ... inconsequential npc, populated cities, etc ... expanded cities, the extra kids from TK, birds, dogs and cats everywhere, etc ... in an ideal gaming environment ... i will use everything ... but so ... i have to prioritize ... and only use the mods that add resources that serve a purpose and a functionality. So between Interesting and Inconsequential NPC ... i choose ... iNPC ... because i now i cannot have both ... unless i want to make another trade-off. Just an example. The AI in Skyrim ... is different from other other games (ex. Witcher) ... even a NPC ... that apparently serve no function ... just to show in numbers ... will have basic AI package and default sandbox ... Bethesda would had loved ... to fill the cities with hundreds of NPC ... but they wouldn't had been able to put any other resources in those cells ... the AI are consuming a lot ... so my advice is to be samrt about this ... and choose the NPC that are interesting and functional. Immersive Citizens ... came and made the AI even more complex.

 

Please consider ... that SSE is not the same as Oldrim ... it came with a lot of stuff ... from factory ... including the 4 DLCs (the textures one as well) ... the plant and foliage is almost double in vanilla SSE than in Oldrim, i didn't count it ... but i think there are more trees, more landcape objects as rocks and stuff, the number of random encounters i think is a lot bigger ... water shaders and godrays, and most importantly ... LODs ... these are very heavy and memory demanding. They took advantage ... of the 64 bit engine ... and made the game look nicer from factory. So i wouldn't be very surprised ... if the available free memory left for mods ... is smaller than in Oldrim ... speaking in percents. Then ... came the modders and took advantage ... releasing ... many 4k and even 8k textures ... i still recommend keeping to 2k ... for a most stable playthrough.

 

For me ... Oldrim was working very badly ... especially after i upgraded my specs ... to i7 4790K (but not overcloaked), 16 RAM and GTX 970, w7 64 bit ... i was able to load more graphical demanding mods ... but i lost a lot to stability ... from my old i3 setup and 2 GB VRam. It may not be for everyone the same ... but the skyrim 32 bits engines had problems running stable ... on a 64 bit engine ... both software and hardware. Even without an ENB ... Oldrim was constantly crashing ... to 6-7 cell loads (i don't think ... i ever reached consecutive 8 cell) ... and more than 10 NPCs / Cell ... and this with the memory patch ... which they released ... expanding the memory stack from 256 to 512 ... i would reach 512 ... in no time ... even quicker in exterior world ... traversing a hold ... and then crash ... so i was able to trace 80% of my CTDs ... to the memory getting full ... with a SKSE plugin, not to mod conflicting and scripts ... i'm ocd ... when it came to mods playing well with eachother and what every script do ... i download manually every mod ... rearrange it to a file structre that is MO's suited ... re-packing it in 7z and install it manually from MO ... i also prefer lose files to bsa ... if using MO1,2 ... it is no downside to using the loose files. So ... i was already obsessed with this memory shortage ... SSE was a god-send i switch right away ... and test it ... As i was able to fit in a cell, the same cell 4x more objects / NPC than in Oldrim ... i said ... problem solved ... but apparently not ... entirely. Anyway ... i have easy 1000 hours on this character ... the memory bug didn't resurface until 600+ hours ... it is not that bad.

 

I also activate mods ... on need to play basis ... i don't activate all the mods from the start ... for Falskaar which makes like 3 edits on Tamriel Worldspace ... i guess is not a big problem ... but for something like Helgen Reborn ... which makes hundreds ... it is better you activate when you are ready to play it, not from the start. Memory thing aside ... your save will also get bigger and bigger ... when it reaches 65.000+ strings (the integer limit) ... it will corrupt for good ... and you will not be able to load it ... at all.

 

Excuse ... my long ... rant! As a conclusion ... i would be very surprised (and very glad) to be another culprit for this 'bug' ... than memory shortage. I was intrigued by ppl saying they didn't encounter this at all ... because it will happen sooner or later ... under the right circumstances ... and modding conditions ... they probably didn't taxed the load engine and memory system ... heavy enough. When the engine cannot load something as small as a dialogue string ... it stand to reason that it cannot load something as big as your save game ... and give you the default 'Save Corrupt' message ... but as you already saw that the symptoms and problems are game world related ... it has nothing to do with the integrity your save file!

after all, your conclusion is that this "save corrupt" in fact is the game couldn't load the save files because of the short of memory, while the save files themselves have nothing wrong. so, if i insist to play with many mods which can cause this issue, i can only exist and open the game each time this issue happen, and this situation is safe to play without the possibility of the saves really go corrupted? if so, i'll be less warried, i was thinking the saves will finally complately corrupted if i ingore this issue.

[freestonew]

hi all.

 

Here is sit, reading that nice long post. I have been following this thread now for months. I have learned a lot about the game engine and what not to use in my mod list.

 

I nervously read these posts as I too am getting ready to play. Nervously, as back months ago, and even now, I see the latest news on Nexus.

"outlaws and revolutionaries" is now out.

"Patch is made for the People of skyrim mod to work with legacy of the dragonborn".

 

I want them all!!

too bad I cannot run legacy with tpos with Holds with questorium with interesting npcs...and other quest mods!

 

Skyrim bounties seems to be non conflicting, in tesedit. 'Ah, but that last post sums my problem us well, I *cannot* have it all. my eyes roll when I open up the scripts folder in say, TPOS. script after script after script after.......

or even the outlaws and revolutionaries mod. then there is the "sherries"..[spelling] follower mod, looks very well done. script-heavy, all.

 

Freestone, here, Must Face the Music: just *what* does he want in his game?! well....I want a rich world to explore, very good graphics, a kind of "meditation" as it were, as I walk around the land and villages.. no real complicated quests, no overdone monster mods.

 

I really want a deep storyline with philosophical ideas.

too bad the main quest seems not to satisfy me.

 

I have maxed all of my graphics to 2k and even some 4k.

not much room left, according to you all.

 

so, myself, I decide to play NO large quest mods. I might even uninstall the magic mods, like apocalypse as these mods are script heavy.

 

[i never was interested in the plot of the game, as is. this is why I am so late to this party. I am not interested in the "me..me..me" of the game, I want to see other people's creative efforts, then explore deep storylines and Ideas. ]

[even the legacy mod I have qualms over as this mod is all about Collecting *Things*, a near Obsession like of a kind of OCD is required.]

 

so I guess I will just wander around the landscape and towns.

 

and you know....when beth makes that next game, tes V, they probably will give to us all four times the memory and six times the overhead. *however*....just as hard drives, no matter how large, they will Fill Up, very soon the modders, thrilled at the open opportunity to make even greater mods, they will then come out with 6 to 15 gig mods with 20,000 scripts each and 3000 npcs!

very soon the very same problem will happen yet again!!

 

freestone

[freestonew]

there might be yet more issues that can cause crashes and freezes, something one can do something about!

 

In a large mod list, you load up your save. do you immediately begin to play? when you save, do you try to save in a quiet corner where little is happening?

 

I suspect that sometimes when a game is loaded, only part of the save is actually loaded when one begins to move. maybe one should count to ten before playing. scripts and processes might still be loading.

If you save in the middle of action, maybe not all of the action is saved! do this just once and the save could become corrupted and even might not show up until many saves later!

 

thousands of scripts, processes, all tripping over each other, oh no!

 

In other words, one could try to save and load slowly and safely in a not-active area of the game.

 

freestone