False "save corruption" during gameplay

[Gothpunk4Christ]

Eh, I do have dialogue issues and text box issues, yeah. I do expect those types of issues when loaded up at the mod limit though, so I suppose they don't bother me as much.When running fewer script intensive mods, they don't seem to appear as often, so I just take for granted that I'm making the issue worse by running more mods.

 

It could also be that I'm just not noticing them, or that maybe an infrequent CTD causes the reset necessary that I don't encounter the issues as often.

 

Things will work out eventually, and it's not enough to cause me to absolutely hate the game, a game that is close to tied for my favorite all time game. When skse64 gets released though, I anticipate a mass influx of fixes and new mods, and that, to me, is worth the wait.

 

*edit* as far as the "falling through the ground" issue, I have never encountered that.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Gothpunk4Christ

[LupusHegemonia]

I can't remember HOW MANY TIMES I re-installed from scratch the game and all my mods (over 240) for the last 30-40 days (I think is over 10 times)...!

I still have (after 20-30 minutes) problem:

 

- popups without text, just a " - " and an "OK"

- I'm dying in battle and won't loading (and watching the battle continues for ever)

- corrupted saves (which are turning good after I exit and return back to the game)

 

...I don't know what the hell's happening! I haven't such problem before. It started a month ago...and I can't solve it. And the problem is, ALL OF YOU have... DIFFERENT issue... with the same problem, so THERE IS NO "PATTERN" to find the problem!

 

Could be the DISK DRIVE itself? Could be corrupted (the hardware) and cause the problem?

[tonycubed2]

there is a pattern , if you are looking for it. I know what your problem is. I know why the caged bird sings. will post it in the next few minutes, been meaning to for a week now.

[tonycubed2]

The issue you are having can be summarized with one number: 65,535 forms of data. Skyrim saves have a limit, and the limit is 65,535 pieces of information. The this may seem like a lot, but lets look at the findings by prior detectives. Please read the following article, and I will continue after it. It is very vital you all read it and really understand it:

 

(start of quote)

The Issue

There is a limit of 65,535 bits of variable data that a Skyrim save can store (kinda makes sense there would be a finite limit if you think about it, but now we know what it is). Each bit of data that a mod needs to store will take one of the 65,535 available slots, and once your save reaches that limit it will go into that nasty 'CTD on load' state.

Unfortunately what I would consider a base Skyrim installation (Vanilla Skyrim + Dawnguard + Hearthfires + Dragonborn + Unofficial Legendary Patch + SkyUI + Live Another Life) will chew through 28,619 of these variables before you even start adding mods. So you have a space of just 36,916 (almost half the original space) to play with.

Now there are two ways mods will store data. At the point the mod is loaded (base allocation), or when you encounter certain events while playing (dynamic allocation). The first is easy to test, the second is much more difficult to guess at. Since it's virtually impossible to know how much overhead you need to support long-term play, the bottom line is that you will want to concentrate on keeping the base allocation as low as possible to allow for dynamic allocation during play.

The guys that discovered this are working on testing the base allocation of various mods, and the results may surprise you. I'll list out a few of the really heavy hitters discovered so far:

DynDOLOD - 3714
Legacy of the Dragonborn - 3463
Interesting NPCs - 3273
SexLab - 1805 (plus an additional 12 per added animation)
Immersive Amazing Follower Tweaks - 1636
Anna's NPCs - 1479
Rigmor of Bruma - 1373
Vilja in Skyrim - 1334
Helgen Reborn - 1313
Immersive Armors - 1027
Molag Bal's Inferno - 983
Morskom Estate - 803
iNeed - 730
Frostfall - 641
Campfire - 576
Convenient Horses - 535

Testing is ongoing, and has obviously started with the more popular mods, so many of the mods we use may not yet have been tested (you can find a more full list here under "String count spreadsheets".

You can see that just using this small list of mods would leave you with just 12,237 variables to be allocated during gameplay before reaching a dead save - 82% of the original space eaten up before you even leave the LAL starting cell! Not a play through destined for a long life :sad:

 

(end of quote)

 

 

Now lets think about this. You install less than 20 mods and you are already over 80 percent out of the resource in question. And then you guys install 200 mods and wonder why the game is toast around level 30. Well, now you know. quote: "tests suggest that starting at 55k or higher will reach the 65k limit within roughly 20 hours of play time"

 

How can you check your save? here are the steps:

 

1. Download TESV ESS Files Editor by fubrus (www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/27119/?)
2. Open your suspect save
3. Expand "Global data table 3"
4. Click on Papyrus (don't need to expand)
5. If you receive a pop up error "Range check error" your save is almost definitely screwed, and you'll need to try an earlier save
6. Note the "Strings" entry.
7. 65,535 - (the number of strings from step 6) = the cushion you have from having corrupt saves.

 

 

So what can you do? I again quote:

 

(start of quote)

 

Conclusion

 

 

There are five solutions to consider.

 

1. Uninstall some mods. Good choices include Interesting NPCs and Legacy of the Dragonborn, due to their high string usage. Not only will this help with your string count, but with stability and game performance in general. Seriously, don't overdo it. Skyrim can only handle so much. My savefile editor -- ReSaver -- can help you determine which mods introduce the most strings by examining a working savefile.

 

2. Register fewer sexlab animations. Sexlab animations use up the string table very quickly and are one of the main reasons that people run into the string table bug. Use SLAL, pick your favourite animations, and leave the rest unregistered.

 

2. Restringer -- A tool (that I made) for making mod patches that reduce their string counts. It's still in alpha, but early reports seem to indicate that it does what it's supposed to. Don't do this unless you are supreme level 87 modding expert. USE CRASH FIXES INSTEAD.

 

3. h38fh2mf's Crash Fixes -- A very good patch that fixes a whole bunch of bugs in Skyrim that can cause crashes, it modifies the way Skyrim loads and saves games so that they can handle larger string tables. It's still in testing and it makes the savegames incompatible with SaveTools and Script Scalpel, but other than that it seems to work perfectly.

 

5. There is an unofficial/unsupported patch for sexlab that reduces the number of strings used by animations. It requires JContainers 3.3alpha. It is not compatible with existing savegames. Like seriously. If you try to use it with an existing savegame, the savegame will jump out of the screen and slap you to death. Don't try it. Anyway, the link is at the bottom of this post. If you install it, don't go asking for support on the main Sexlab threads because it is completely unofficial and unsupported. Ashal has not sanctioned this patch, so it's definitely a use-at-your-own-risk kind of thing. You can find it HERE.

 

As a mod user you should:

1. View this as choosing where to spend your resources in an informed way, just like with scripts, and not see it as a list of mods that shouldn't be used by anyone
2. Be aware of those mods that have not yet been updated but that add huge amounts of variables to your saves, and decide if they're really worth the chance of a dead save later on (Interesting NPCs, Frostfall and Campfire for instance, I would argue IS worth this risk, but many of the others aren't for me - your choices may differ)
3. Update your mods as fixes for this issue are released. Get involved in the Beta programs if you like, but be aware that they'll come with their own set of risks to your playthrough
4. Be aware that this is not an unrecoverable situation, and that you can clean your save after removing the variable heavy mods to get a bit more life from your playthrough
5. Spread awareness to other mod users, and if you have the ear of any mod authors, impress on them the need to check their mods for this issue.

Above all please, please, PLEASE do NOT go on a witch hunt against mod authors for this issue.

It's only just come to light and it is going to take time to get understanding out there, and even longer for them to redevelop mods that have this issue - it is not an easy problem for mod authors to fix and any that do should be loudly applauded for taking the time and effort to do so.

 

(end of quote)

 

personally, I have written and shared a mod that removed dead npcs as you play . Either all encountered or the ones you and your group kill. This mod has stopped my saves form being corrupted. And I can now load saves no problem. ctds gone. The amount of free forms to use in my game is very low, so cleaning up the dead in my game allows me to party on. Your results may of course vary.

 

A GREAT MANY OF YOU are in this situation. You are installing too many mods, soaking up the 65,535 forms, and as you play you are going over the limit, encountering ctds, corrupted saves, strange game issues. Reloading temporarily fixes the issue (when it does not ctd on load) because the dynamic allocation the resource is lowered upon a game reload. But as you play the number creeps up again and voila!

 

Sincerely

 

Tonycubed2

 

sources:

 

1) http://www.plaguehush.com/blog/2016/5/2/skyrim-saves-ctd-on-load-what-does-it-mean

 

2) https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/3924850-corrupt-saves-strcount-0xffff-ctd-on-load/

 

3) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HY4b4L3tJuYPxJazEc8XeF-q3WXI11u76hlKKleQel8/edit

[Gothpunk4Christ]

Really good info tony, thanks for the links to the strings counts, and it did somewhat solidify my assumption that switching from AFT to EFF was a good idea xD

 

I knew convenient horses, warzones, enhanced factions and the like would be string heavy, but I would have never guessed about DFO/FCO or even lanterns of skyrim even being on the list. Guess that shows how little I truly do know about this stuff. Even some armr mods, which I didn't think involved strings - book covers, ordinator,and amidianborn stuff, dang. I guess I know where I can start cutting back away from the 255 cap can start again... dang... and I was hoping to be able to legitimately go beyond 255 again like in FO4 and be perfectly stable.

 

Bleah.

 

*edit* According to ReSaver (If I'm even reading the info correctly, someone please correct me if I'm wrong) looks like Ambriel and Forgotten Dungeons are my two biggest so far, FD has 1500 script instances, Ambriel 524. I really hadn't even gotten to the point where I can use that follower yet though, so I'm anticipating an early termination for the sake of testing to see if removing does indeed make a difference.

 

I doubt that I'm reading this stuff correctly though, because even my warzones mod only runs 385, I sincerely doubt that between just a handful of mods that do seem to have a little bit of scripting active would cause issues like this, and I'm not sure a single follower would give me more scripts than 10-20 NPCs fighting each other every 30 feet.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Gothpunk4Christ

[LupusHegemonia]

I'm running SSE, not "Oldrim".

Most of the things you wrote, Tony, I've read them in articles about "Oldrim", not for SSE.

And most of the mods you're saying to remove OR TOOLS to use, are for "Oldrim" mods & game. I'm not using "oldrim" mods - mostly "oldrim" mods for textures and such...

(And the only "adult" mod I'm using is the "Flower Girls SSE x", as i was using before without problem. Not a single other "adult" mod...)

 

And, I was using VERY HEAVY mods setups before, not just now (a month ago).

I was using the "SEPTIM" guide, plus... almost the double mods of that guide - and I haven't a problem like that.

I had before (2-3 months) a build of 400+ mods, without this issue. Currently, I have ONLY 273 mods (the half of them are graphics)... and I DO SUFFER from this problem!

 

It started a month ago, after MANY MODS' UPDATES. I assume, these new mods updates causing the problem.

OR... I made MANY ini changes to my ini files... and PERHAPS these ini changes cause the problem.

 

And I know folks that running almost 500 mods in SSE and... above 700 (merged) in "Oldrim"!!!!!! WITHOUT this problem. So... what do you say about that?

(Of course, they're using OLDER mods versions, not the new updates as I did now)...

[tonycubed2]

Se has the same limitations with number of strings and limit. It's not the number of mods per se, it's the total number os strings used.

[Ramagast]

Yeah, that's a well known problem. I sorta expressed the concern that we can see it in SSE - just in this this strange new form.
Thing is... I should be looking at strings, right? So, I still have this experimental broken save - get it here, if you're interested.
I open it with Fallrim Tools and I see 55785 strings. I mean, it's not far from the collapsing point. But I guess that my game just stops loading when this point is reached - the way it did in Oldrim. Nasty business.
Meh321 built a workaround for Oldrim with "Skyrim fixes". I wonder if "SSE Fixes" helps us now. Looks like that for now it only addresses the problem of low fps that hits with high number of esp's. Which I personally didn't have, but I wonder if it's connected to our issue.

[tonycubed2]

Makes sense. You are so close that it won't take much in game for you to,go,past the limit, as gane dynamically uses more strings. When you reach it, all your saves made from that point are corrupted. Game often continues, but saves are poisoned.

 

I use sse fixes, but there is no fix there yet for this.

[LupusHegemonia]

So... I don't understand... how in previous builds with LOT MORE mods I had NO problem such this one... and now I do have, with almost the half (in number) mods???